Financing Arenas - the view from Pittsburgh

[Dogma]

"Realistic" - is todays "word (work) of the day in Kingston".

See todays article....by a typical young eager Kingstonian - and "educated" worker.


And recently on CKWS: How the new union rep. for Kingston admits ...

.."per capita Kingston has the most Government jobs in Canada".

Question:

Are unions admitting that they "create jobs or meerly try to retain local historically established ones"

- I want that union leaders job! - seems pretty easy to have only one goal.


Great for ones that have guarranteed jobs, not so great for the young ranks wanting to coming through.
- with probably much higher education levels, skills
- more energy = higher productivity (better ROI)
- invested more in their education than many existing union employees


To stay in Kingston or to leave?

Amy Axford
Letters to the Editor - Thursday, April 26, 2007 Updated @ 7:10:39 AM

The bright lights of the city seem to call out to people my age. It is not just the sophistication and adventure that draws us but the chance to employ the education and training we have paid dearly for as soon as possible.

It seems one of the biggest issues plaguing the young adults of Kingston is opportunity. We go off to postsecondary education (some of us just down the road), return after graduation and resume the work we've done since we were 16, waiting for a "real" job. It seems the market for entry-level positions is lacking, even though K-Town is experiencing growth. The conundrum lies in the fact that Kingston is such an appealing place to live in so many aspects, except for the job market

Even I have been tempted by opportunities outside the Limestone City. One week I decided to move to Calgary, the next to Burlington, the next to Oshawa - and, for a moment, to Nunavut. My mother, who came to Kingston from England for one year to work and has stayed for more than 30 years, almost cried. "Are you sure you want to leave?" she asked.

The fact is, I'm not sure. It's not just my friends and family I'd miss but the everyday aspects of life in Kingston. We are spoiled by our waterfront, our proximity to nature, our historic buildings and our warm community. We come to think that every neighbourhood should be dotted with aged trees and every restaurant should offer free refills. I like running into my high school French teacher at yoga, finding out that the accountant at my boyfriend's new workplace is an old family friend and recognizing the faces of former classmates in the pages of the Whig.

The should-I-stay-or-should-I-go dilemma has come down to patience. A lot of my peers don't have the stamina to hold out for that job - that golden opportunity. We listen to the rumours about new business coming to town and the complicated circumstances under which these firms are turned away. We are pacified by forecasts that predict mass retirements "any day now." Frustration mounts, and, sure enough, we begin to rank full employment over small-town loyalty.

To say that I am a "townie" would be putting it lightly. It almost feels treasonous to be considering a move away from the city that raised me. Still, as more and more people my age are forced to make the choice, the option of leaving remains in the forefront of my mind. Whereas I have prioritized Kingston life, perhaps my beloved city should consider my peers and me for a moment.

- Amy Axford was born and raised in Kingston and is a recent graduate of the State University of New York at Potsdam teaching program. She is a member of the Whig-Standard's Community Editorial Board.

[Dogma]

I came across this article that speaks to the "head verse the heart of the public" interest groups, that may relate to issues such as the LVEC.


The article speaks to many assumptions and hearsay that many "naysayers" groups (like KCAL) cherry pick as their main arguments against such a project.

On politics and public interest

The Whig-Standard
Opinion Columns - Saturday, May 19, 2007 Updated @ 11:54:16 PM

COLUMN

By Andrea Gunn



Too often, people complain

about the outcomes of public consultation exercises either because a) they didn’t participate during the exercise and now want to have their opinions heard or b) they don’t like the outcome of the public consultations because their opinions were not reflected in the outcome.

It is impossible to get 100-per-cent agreement on any issue. Any group or exercise that purports to achieve the will of the people‚ is unrealistic. The purpose of public consultation should be to get a cross-section of viewpoints, so that an issue can be seen from all angles.

If there is a great deal of consensus on an issue, so much the better. It makes the job of the people charged with putting vision into action much easier.

In real life, you can’t please all of the people all of the time.

Elected officials, too, have limitations on what they are able to do – limitations they don’t always recognize. This is true of politicians at any level, from municipal to federal.

Civic issues often need to be dealt with over the longer term, over several political terms of office. But politicians tend to frame issues reactively and in shorter time frames, within their elected terms of office.

They go for the short-term wins. Sadly, it is often not enough to act sensibly; politicians need to be seen to act on behalf of their constituents. Merely weighing various interests, seconding sensible decisions and acting in the best interest of the community isn’t nearly as exciting, and won’t necessarily get you any votes in the next election.

There’s nothing wrong with a politician taking on the little cases, like examining the need for the stop light in a neighbourhood where auto traffic is perceived as increasing.

Ambition does not equal ability and good intentions are no substitute for well-rounded knowledge.

There’s an old cliche that you can’t fight city hall, as if city hall were an entity unto itself instead of an organization composed of trained, experienced local residents who have chosen to go into public service.

Framing the interests of the community against the perceived interests of bureaucrats is terribly short-sighted. Ad hominem arguments are those which go after the person with whom one disagrees, rather than the logic of their position.

Too often, when public debate is aired about local issues, the dialogue is *****ened with ad hominem attacks.

I’d like to see public discourse on these issues be a little more mature, so that whatever the outcome, whether it is a policy, bylaw or building, the process isn’t littered with ***** shots and personal attacks.

It’s a lot easier to live with an outcome you don’t completely agree with, if you can see that the process used to get to the outcome was rational, and professionally handled.


Andrea Gunn works in policy and communications. She is a member of the Whig-Standard’s community editorial board.

[Lydia]

Framing the interests of the community against the perceived interests of bureaucrats is terribly short-sighted. Ad hominem arguments are those which go after the person with whom one disagrees, rather than the logic of their position.

Holy Cow, finally I have met someone whom I agree with completely. My wish is that every district has a community association available to them with a wonderful councilor like Robert Matheson. At the Loyalist Cataraqui Community Association there are members who are polar opposites on their opinions (something like you and me Dogma lol lol) who present their views and allow others to do the same, we are able to have discussions and question each other on WHY we think the way we do.


Now on the mature level, I can't say i agree with Andrea because quite frankly I enjoy teasing you Dogma. lol lol

There is a HUGH DIFFERENCE between torment and attacking. The problem sometimes is that when we feel attacked we don't call the person on it. That is why I thank you Dogma for telling me where we agree and disagree.

[Dogma]

So...does that mean your "association" will donate to the LVEC?

I would think if they have opinions they can (as the article suggests) get past some of their passion and rally to be positive about the future project?

It will be interesting to see this project as a success and the ones that will still dig in - and not consider:

Civic issues often need to be dealt with over the longer term, over several political terms of office. But politicians tend to frame issues reactively and in shorter time frames, within their elected terms of office.

[Lydia]

Actually Dogma, getting past the passion and starting to support the LVEC did come up during May 20th meeting. We may be a small group but we are a informed, passionate, and active group. Heck we even have a social activist on our team as well as a great environmentalist Two people whom I never taught that I would have much in common with but found out that I really like these people. We have over 40 members now and really want more residents to join us.

Two of our members spoke directly to the fact that it is time to start supporting the LVEC project by not continuing to down play the project. The cost of events will prove to be the main signal as to whether the LVEC becomes an excellent project or a white-elephant.

As long as the LVEC isn't just for entertainment ONLY, but becomes a conference centre as well as an entertainment location, it will be a place that Kingston people will support and be proud off.

Seniors WILL NOT be willing to pay over $25 to $50.00 for events in this city, at least according to some of our members. Not because of the fees but because they won't pay that and still have to deal with the parking issues.

A suggestion that came up was the idea of Park and Ride shuttle that MIGHT, I say MIGHT be a solution to the parking issue.

As for me, I'm saving my money for the 50 meter pool.

[Dogma]

I see that many would support this entertainment /conference centre if they do wish to see Barry Manilow - or the Antique Road Show...

I would guess they would pay for admissions that would not "tax" their pension retirement incomes per year.

Parking - most events are at night and Basics is right there!

So, parking will not be such a "passionite" issue it seems to be assumed now. And most people having trouble walking can be dropped off and over time all these seemingly HUGE issues - will look silly once reality sinks in.

Although as the article says: there will aways be the negative ones.

In any case - I will look for you at the next Olympics for the 100 meter freestyle. Don't forget to turn at 50m!

[Lydia]

And most people having trouble walking can be dropped off and over time all these seemingly HUGE issues - will look silly once reality sinks in.


Wait a minute, We were told that there WOULD BE NOOOOOOOOOOO DROP OFFS because of the size of the sidewalks and two way traffic that would be there.

Have they changed their minds regarding dropping off people at the entrance??

I do agree with you that alot of these issues will seem very silly later.

No Ill just continue pass the 50 m line and go straight to the LVEC.

[Dogma]

Crane strike slows arena; Walkout won't hurt multiplex

Brock Harrison
Local News - Thursday, May 24, 2007 @ 00:00

A provincewide strike involving crane and other heavy-equipment operators threatens to halt construction on Kingston's downtown arena and entertainment centre.

Yesterday, about 2,000 crane operators walked off job sites across Ontario, hampering hundreds of construction sites and threatening the construction progress of Kingston's $46-million facility, which is already a month behind schedule.

Work continued at the construction site yesterday without crane operators.

A spokesman for EllisDon, the company overseeing construction of the facility, says the strike will definitely delay the project but couldn't say by how much.

"It will slow [construction] down at first and then it's going to pretty much stop it," said Mike Smith. "We'll do our very best to work around it but its certainly going to impede the project. "

The International Union of Operating Engineers, Local 793, is campaigning for more money and against proposed changes from a five-day, 40-hour work week to a four-day, 40-hour work week, the Canadian Press reports.

More labour disputes that could further delay construction are also on the horizon.

Other trade unions with workers on the site are in strike position and Smith says the operating engineers' walkout could compel them to follow suit.

The work stoppage comes at a bad time for the downtown arena project. Steel framing is in full swing and much of the work involves hoisting massive steel beams into the air. It can't be done without cranes.

"We're pretty much getting into the heart of the structure right now," Smith said. "We can safely say this is going to delay things." Cynthia Beach, the city's commissioner of growth, wasn't prepared to forecast a definite delay for the project, saying the city does anticipate potential schedule snags, including labour disputes.

"It's normal that in a big project like this that we have to look at adjusting schedules if there are these types of problems," Beach said.

The facility is supposed to be ready by January 2008. The first scheduled event is a Jan. 18 Ontario Hockey League regular season game between the Kingston Frontenacs and Ottawa 67s.

Beach says the city will do everything it can to meet that opening day target. "We're going to be monitoring things. It all depends on how long the strike will be," she said.

On the bright side, Beach says the downtown entertainment centre is the only big-ticket city-run project that will be affected by the strike.

Steel work on the west-end multiplex has wrapped up and cranes have been moved off the site, she said.

"The multiplex won't be affected," Beach said.

It is unknown how long the strike might last. No further negotiations between the union and the employers' bargaining agency were scheduled as of yesterday.

Private employers offered workers pay hikes of less than three per cent annually for the duration of a three-year contract. Workers want more, given recent projections of an expanding economy and higher demand for services.

"The less than three per cent was soundly rejected by the membership. Certainly, we're seeking more than that," said Ken Lew, manager of labour relations for the union local. bharrison@thewhig.com

[Dogma]

Yesterday, about 25 labourers walked off the job at the site of the downtown arena.

Project manager Lanie Hurdle said the strike shouldn't cause any major impacts to timelines for the project.

The strike affects some of the masonry work at the site, but doesn't impact the erection of the structural steel, Hurdle said.

That could change if the union forms a picket line or the strike goes on for a long time, she said.

"We'd have to revise the schedule to see how certain work can be done.

The critical item is the structural steel," Hurdle said.

No picket lines have been set up in the city, but Claro said picket lines are possible if other workers do work labourers perform. He said so far that hasn't happened.

Labourers specialize in excavation, site preparation, debris removal, cement finishing and traffic control.

If the strike causes the project to miss its deadlines, the city can't make builder EllisDon speed up construction.

Under terms of the contract signed with EllisDon, deadlines would be extended for the length of any delays occurring from labour disputes, strikes or lockouts. The city wouldn't have to pay for any additional costs due to the strike.

The clause that allows the city to force EllisDon to speed up construction doesn't apply if delays were caused by labour disputes. Hurdle said EllisDon has informed the city there were no delays as a result of the crane operator strike.

The arena is to be completed this December and open early next year. The crane operator strike halted work at the Ravensview water treatment plant, said Jim Keech, president of Utilities Kingston. Yesterday, work continued on the site despite the strike because there was no picket line, he said.

"If it does carry on, it will have an impact," he said.

With the strike in day one, the walkout hadn't affected the timelines for work at the west-end multiplex, the Grand Theatre or projects at Queen's University.

"It hasn't done anything to slow down work," said Barclay Mayhew, project manager for the multiplex.

He said the multiplex has some form work being done right now, but the majority of work deals with mechanical and electrical installations.

Labourers also walked off the job at the construction site for the new police headquarters on Division Street.

Project liaison officer Const. Greg Harbec said the strike hadn't seriously affected work. Much of the form work, which labourers specialize in, was completed last year, he said.

Now workers are putting the finishing touches on the interior of the building. Move-in is set for September.

"At this point, it is affecting us, but not critically," Harbec said. "If it is prolonged, it may affect us critically." jpress@thewhig.com

[Lydia]

I figured there would be labour problems on these projects. I hope that the cost of these were taken into consideration when the business plan was developed.

Am I correct Dogma, that strikes were considered in the forecasting?

[Dogma]

I don't know if the labour "hours" for a strike has been built in to the budget. But, it really is about O.T (overtime) to make up the hours (if required) are the real costs to consider. Or do they just shift the less critical work (labourers) - to later next weeks work? Probably this will be the result. +/_ = null.


But, did you know that - other than Iceland - Canada has the highest number of strikes in the world. A total of 143 days of lost work on average.

30% of our work force is organised as a union, and a history of militant action.

Productive country - you think? Maybe it just that we don't want to get in our cars on a Feb. morning?

[Lydia]

Just for the record, I am not or have i ever been associated with a Union.

However, coming from Cape Breton Island which had a history of slavery and strikes, I can understand both sides of the issue.

At one time, If a person was willing to work hard and would be productive that person had a job for life. Then came the mentality that this was not good enough. The rule would be "no matter how loyal or good you were, the person who did the least would be let go no matter what the reason was."

My friend was a head hunter and worked for a company which stated: "No matter how good you did your job, or how hard you tried, there was always something wrong with you" This would give the reason to fire the person who produced least." When quotas are gotten rid of and a person didn't need two or three jobs to earn a living, then and only then will unions never be needed.

Unfortunately, Dogma, like it or not the people who believe in unions are only saying " Since a company is earning a good profit for itself, it should also share some of that with the workers who actually do the work"

Now comes organized Labour Unions which I find to be the same as businesses and strike just for the sake of striking. I am TOTALLY against that concept and I would never support them.

So there you have it. Which side would you be on? Personally I would much prefer to work for myself and provide a service that companies would be willing to pay for.

Anyway, hopefully things will work out for the best on both sides.

[Dogma]

I understand and appreciate the reasons behind having a union that represents the "rights" of Canadain workers.

I also understand 70% of workers are NOT organised.

That being said - the "traditional" relationship i.e business owners / managers verses traditional unions needs to change.

And in many cases because of global competitiveness and a different way of thinking about work. i.e no life time jobs, Internet commerce, movement of labour and the decline of manufacturing, to more a service economy ..the unions are under increasing pressure not to provoke strikes or labour issues. They are starting to understand the world has and is changing quickly and they need to adapt.

But, the employers also have a responsibility to workers and (in most cases) want to have a stable and happy work force.

In this case - we see a boom going on in construction and a scare skilled work force.

Union contracts also expire and should be negotiated in good faith.

But, as you know (history lives in workplace culture) Ontario teachers, hospital and construction workers in particular have always been the "leaders" of strike positioning. Harris Government and the liberals tried to control the teachers work loads etc. And looked what happens. And these (all) are essential services...

I agree unions are important, I agree employers are important.

I wonder though if "employees" union or not - if they truly understand how businesses actually develop
(and I am talking about decent business, not mom and pop's)

- how are run , what and where their cash flow supports in the business or iemployee training?

If they (like accountants do) could understand the basics - I wonder if they would be so militant at the "bargaining table"?

Self employment (like owners of large companies) has its benefits you eluded to, but, it has its challenges and misconceptions such as the balance for long term success - of having great interpersonal, sales personalities and business economic, and front line experience, and supportive happy in their "jobs" employees & frankly thick skin to weather economic change.

I wonder? If they really get it?

[Lydia]

No they don't get it Dogma. Neither employees or employers of hugh companies really get it. The people who own mom and pop business are the only ones who truly get it.

I hate employees who hide behind unions and never put in a decent day's work especially don't get it.

I hate employers who get rid of people just because they didn't meet a quota.

People like yourself and myself who have or had businesses fully realize one thing. If you are a ""BOSS"" you have your customers telling you what to do. If you are an employee you ONLY have a Boss to report too.""

How I fully realize that there are companies who do get it and hire the best people to have their businesses thrive. There are excellent employees who provide excellent skills and are willing to work for the good of businesses.

I like keeping a positive thought about 90% of the workforce and businesses. It is that 10% who don't get it. Instead of worrying about globalization, I would love to say that the world becames our oyster and we have more chances to prove our worth as people.

[Dogma]

I agree that "entrepenuers" (mom & pops) have an idea of their responsibilities in the work force in general.

Unfortunately; for most of these businesses they fall short when it comes to employee relations. i.e renumeration, training and EHS.

Infact; I would say they usually are at "higher risk" because of two issues
-unrealistic business plans for their market trends and not enough capital, during the break even period.

That combination usually effects the productivity and goals of both the company and its employees.

Unions tend to be with fairly large companies that are incorporated.

Sole proprietors (mom & pops) usually are not unionized and do not have the same risks that come with unions..
i.e strikes, productivity, EHS.

Unions are a challange because they tend to be less flexable than a non unionized shop especially in terms of productivity and wage concessions.

Sure mom & pops have their own risks and do understand the "client is king". Although personally I disagree with this notion in most cases. The days of fat margins are long gone, when at that time companies (retail) used the service characteristics of a business to promote "the client is always right". Now, profit margins are tight and client haggling and free incentives should/is be a thing of the past. The client is not always right and should not be looked upon in these terms, although politely.

Employees here generally are not trained very well and I would take note that most are probably discouraged, underpaid and with downsizing less committed to their company. I would also suggest most are at work because of the lifestyle choices they have made in this society of consumption beyond their means. The "dream" of retiring these days by many in their 50's is VERYpopular. A generation ago this would be looked down upon as being lazy.

The 6/49 is a very popular incentive for many middle class folks.

By the way, is it me or are we the only ones left on this site since the elections?