Market Square Renaming - Has it stirred antisemitism?

[Valley]

The recent comments by Harold Stone on the Market Square renaming may have brought to light some underlying antisemitic feelings in Kingston. Its not clear from reading the CKWS-TV transcript (see below) that this was intended by Mr. Stone. However, it does muddy the waters on an issue that deserves informed debate entirely on its own merits. A fully transparent debate on this issue might have gone a long way to prevent even the semblance of this kind of racist ugliness in our community.


City Hall Market Square
CKWS TV "Market Comments"
November 18 2005 - 8:40 PM

THE DEBATE OVER THE RE-NAMING OF KINGSTON'S HISTORIC MARKET SQUARE HAS TAKEN AN UGLY NEW TURN.

TONIGHT, THE MAYOR AND COUNCIL SAY RACISM HAS CREPT INTO THE CONTROVERSY.

IT STEMS FROM COMMENTS MADE TO COUNCIL THIS WEEK.

A KINGSTON MAN SUGGESTED THE NAMING OF THE HISTORIC SQUARE AFTER A JEWISH FAMILY HAS SPARKED A "CLASH OF CULTURES."

THE MAYOR IS FURIOUS...BUT THE MAN WHO MADE THE COMMENTS ISN'T BACKING AWAY FROM THEM.

NEWSWATCH'S LUCY LOPEZ REPORTS.THE CITY OF KINGSTON HAS ALREADY POURED 2 MILLION DOLLARS INTO THE REVITALIZATION OF ITS MARKET SQUARE....A MILLION OF THAT CAME FROM THE SPRINGER FAMILY.
IN RETURN, THEY GOT NAMING RIGHTS TO THE PUBLIC AREA.

..THAT YOU PUT ASIDE
...FOUNDING CULTURES OF THIS CITY

LOCAL CITIZEN HOWARD STONE READS FROM THE PRESENTATION HE MADE TO COUNCIL THIS WEEK -- WHICH HAS ANGERED THE MAYOR AND FUELED ALLEGATIONS OF RACISM.

STONE'S SPEECH GOES ON TO TALK ABOUT A "CLASH OF CULTURES"....THE ONES WHO BUILT THE LIMESTONE MONUMENTS...AND THE CULTURES TRYING TO BUY THE NAMING RIGHTS.

MAYOR HARVEY ROSEN IS OUTRAGED OVER THE IMPLICATIONS THAT THE JEWISH INFLUENCE IS SOMEHOW ERASING THE LOYALIST ROOTS.

HARVEY ROSEN:

"IT GOES WELL BEYOND ANTI-SEMITISM. I THINK IT'S AN EX-O-PHOBIC AGAINST ANYBODY WHO ISN'T OF THE ANGLO-SAXAN ORIGINS. MR STONE SPECIFICALLY MENTIONED OUR HERITAGE RELATING TO THE SCOTTISH, ENGLISH AND IRISH, HE NEVER MENTIONED THE FIRST NATIONS OR THE FRENCH CLAIM TO THE SOURCES OF OUR CULTURE IN CANADA."

STONE IS STANDING BY HIS STATEMENTS.

REPORTER:

"SO FOR YOU THIS IS NOT A JEWISH ISSUE?
HOWARD STONE:
NEVER HAS BEEN, I HAVE WONDERFUL JEWISH FRIENDS."
HOWARD STONE:

"WHETHER IT'S CHINESE, JAPANESE, HUNGARIAN, OR PERSIAN IRANIAN...IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE, THOSE PEOPLE HAVE NO BASIC FUNDAMENTAL ROOTS IN THAT BUILDING."

AND THAT'S THE POINT HE WANTED TO MAKE -- THAT NO ONE -- PERIOD-- SHOULD HAVE NAMING RIGHTS TO A PIECE OF THE CITY'S HISTORY.

HOWARD STONE:

"BUT I FIND IT AMUSING THAT THE RACISM CARD IS BEING PLAYED WHEN IT IS REALLY MY AND OTHER CULTURES THAT ARE UNDER ATTACK--THESE ARE OUR MONUMENTS AND OUR CULTURE'S BUILDINGS AND YET SOME OTHER CULTURE WANTS TO HANG SOME SIGNS ON THEM."

THE MAYOR AND OTHER COUNCILLORS SEE IT DIFFERENTLY -- SUGGESTING THAT RACISM IS VERY MUCH AT THE HEART OF THE NAMING RIGHTS DEBATE.

ROSEN SAYS HIS JEWISH ROOTS, AND THOSE OF THE SPRINGER FAMILY, HAVE NO PLACE IN THE DEBATE. ..THOUGH HE'S GLAD THE ISSUE IS OUT IN THE OPEN.

HARVEY ROSEN:

"THERE IS A SIGNIFICANT AND DISTURBING NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO ARE MOTIVATED BY THIS SORT OF CONSIDERATION, THIS SORT OF PERSPECTIVE."

BUT COUNCIL WILL HAVE TO DEFEND THE PROCESS...ANOTHER CITIZENS GROUP WILL TAKE THE CITY TO COURT EARLY NEXT YEAR ARGUING THE SECRETIVE PROCESS THAT LED TO THE RENAMING OF MARKET SQUARE WAS FLAWED.

LUCY LOPEZ:

"THE MAYOR AND COUNCILLORS WEREN'T THE ONLY ONES TO HEAR THE INFLAMMATORY COMMENTS VIEWED BY SOME AS BEING RACIST.
ALSO IN THE AUDIENCE THAT NIGHT, GETTING READY TO MAKE HIS OWN BUDGET PRESENTATION, WAS POLICE CHIEF BILL CLOSS AND SEVERAL OF HIS OFFICERS.

BUT POLICE SAY THEY WON'T PURSUE AN INVESTIGATION INTO INCITING HATRED UNTIL SOMEONE FILES A FORMAL COMPLAINT.

LUCY LOPEZ CKWS NEWSWATCH KINGSTON." WHILE HE'S NOT APOLOGIZING FOR HIS COMMENTS, STONE SAYS HE'S WILLING TO CLARIFY HIS STATEMENTS IN FRONT OF COUNCIL -- IF THEY WANT.

C-K-W-S NEWS TRIED TO CONTACT THE SPRINGERS FOR THEIR VIEWS ABOUT THE COMMENTS.

BUT OUR CALLS WERE NOT RETURNED.

[ionbroe]

Valley,

Thanks for posting this. I don't know about racism, but I think Stone's comments are pretty clear evidence of cultural bigotry. City Hall and Market Square don't "belong" to the Irish/English/Scots who made up the bulk of Kingston at that time. They belong to the people of Kingston, which includes us all. If any culture has "roots" in these monuments, it's Canadian culture, which includes us all.

Howard Stone had started something interesting with his Kingston Taxpayers' Association, and I'm sorry to see that these are the true colors he's revealing.

-gardenwitch

[macphail]

If any culture has "roots" in these monuments, it's Canadian culture, which includes us all.

I would say that the culture that first had its "roots" here is the First Nations people. After the First Nations, then the British and French influence made their cultural presenses felt.

I know what you mean, Gardenwitch. But when it comes to "Canadian culture", I see it being more as branches and leaves - things that are constantly changing. Maybe that isn't even accurate: Perhaps "Canadian culture" (whatever that really is...it is talked about but never defined) is more like hybrid trees: A mixture of different cultures.

Maybe Canada doesn't really have [u]a culture[/b]. If you consider the definition of culture as being "the system of shared beliefs, values, customs, behaviours, and artifacts that the members of society use to cope with their world and with one another, and that are transmitted from generation to generation through learning" (http://www.umanitoba.ca/faculties/arts/anthropology/courses/122/module1/culture.html), what system of shared beliefs, values, customs and behaviours do we have?

Perhaps the definition of Canadian culture as found at Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_culture) says it best:

It has been said that Canadian culture rests solely in the effort to distinguish itself from its southern neighbour, the United States. However, others argue that while the two countries share some aspects of a common cultural heritage, there is also a separately identifiable Canadian culture. They point to what they view as a greater integration of their Native culture; the retention of traditions descended from those of French settlers; and a notable infusion of Celtic settlers in later phases of the country's history.

Cheers, Derek

[Lydia]

Canadian culture, which includes us all.

Howard Stone had started something interesting with his Kingston Taxpayers' Association, and I'm sorry to see that these are the true colors he's revealing.

-gardenwitch

Valley, Derek, and Gardenwitch
Thank you Thank you Thank you for posting your comments on Howard Stone's comments about renaming Market Square.

Firstly, let me explain that I am the Chairperson for District 2 Loyalist Cataraqui District 2 of the Kingston Taxpayer's Association that Howard Stone started. I believe that every district in Kingston should be created fairly and equallly. Having met the Chairpeople of ALL the Districts I know that they all feel the same way and are eager and happy to set up a process where they ordinary taxpayer can get their concerns heard. These chairpeople WANT to set things up so that KINGSTONIANS decided what we want.

Secondly, WE ARE CANADIANS, I AM CANADIAN (like the beer) lol lol. What does that mean to me and what culture do i have? I can tell you this MY CANADIAN CULTURE INCLUDES EVERY NATIONALITY, RACE, RELIGION THAT IS ON THIS EARTH. That is CANADIAN CULTURE. My Family history is Ukrianian.

You know that I personally will argue, make fun of my politicians and I do so on here as well as other websites. I do that because I want Kingstonians to discuss issues, to stand up and be counted. I can not speak for everyone on the Taxpayer's Association, however, I Personally will NEVER EVER use Nationality, Race, Religion to change, bring about, support, put down decisions that my politicans make.

Howard Stone was not speaking for the Kingston Taxpayer's Association. Right now I am not speaking for the Kingston Taxpayer's Association. I am personally offended that an association that can be the best thing for this city should become marred because of ONE PERSON'S view point.

Howard Stone is entitled to his opinions. I am against the process that took place in the renaming of Market Square for the following reasons. I firmly believe that Market Square is a historical site and there should have been consultation with the public about renaming processes and length of terms that names should be associated with public buildings etc. I personallity believe that just because you have money that you should be able to decided or buy your way into getting your name on public buildings. I NEVER EVER EVEN CONSIDERED IT HAVING ANYTHING TO DO WITH NATIONALITY, RACE, OR RELIGION.

I firmly believe that when a family decides to dedicate a large sum of money to our city that THEY SHOULD HAVE SOMETHING NAMED WITH THEIR FAMILY NAMES. I think it should be the new buildings such as the LVEC, the Multiplex etc. If you give a million dollars to the city I believe you should have buildings in your honour. Maybe the city should review the procedures for this process and the terms that people can have their names on buildings.

[Adrienne]

Well i think the market Sq. project was mean, heartless and very bad publicity for the mayor. When election comes I WILL NOT elect him. How could this town do something so thoughtless to us?. but know i have calm down and relized it will always be market sq. to me and i will teach my children when i have them what happen, what it was named and what it is now and tell them now it went about and i will make sure they will call it its original name and teach them why they have the respect for the name. I dont understand how the ppl behind this could turn their backs on us people and do that.

P.S sorry if this is in the wrong place, Im new..

[Lydia]

Adrienne
Registered User

Welcome Adrienne, You are doing great. Thank you for your comments and you have expressed exactly what 95% of the people in Kingston is going to call Market Square = MARKET SQUARE. lol lol

[Don Anderson]

It is difficult to conclude whether Mr. Stone’s comments were anti-Semitic or not. Bigotry can always find a convenient hiding place in the chambers of even the smallest human heart. At the very least his comments are culturally pride oriented. Without cultural pride, how could there be a culture? I’m sure he would agree. If that is the case, then in his defense I would suggest that if a western Buddhist proposed to have the “ChanShamTemple” in Toronto renamed “The Mel Lastman Temple”, he/she might meet with similar opposition. The question is, whether any following accusations of anti-Semitism would show up in either the first or the classified section of The Toronto Star.

Terms like "racism" or "commy" for good reason, have a history of evoking emotions so hysterical they don’t even have a name. They are nevertheless validated by the truth behind images of post-war Europe, KKK rallies, The McCarthy committee hearings and even recently here in Canada; in Parizeau’s “ethnic vote” rant. Of course that doesn’t count. Who after all can call Mr. Parizeau's ethics to account when it is clear that separatist paranoia has not only been profitable but has also been validated by 400 yeeahs of self-impossed Oh!pression? Even then, Parizeau’s problem may have originated with several officers who served under General Amherst who attacked and seized Montreal in 1760.

It might interest Mr. Stone to learn both, that the material used to construct many of Kingston’s landmarks does not owe its namesake to him but Amherst Island owes its name to British General Jeffery Amherst (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffery_Amherst). Among his officer core were four Jews: Emmanuel de Cordova, Aaron Hart, Hananiel Garcia, and Isaac Miramer. Aaron Hart’s son Ezekial was elected to Lower Canada’s parliament in 1807. It may benefit him further to know the names of many New York families who emigrated with other anglo-Loyalists and then settled here in Canada.

I imagine from time to time, accusations of racism have been a useful tool in the hands of the politically ambitious. No one ever seems to take characters like Jesse Jackson to task for trading on the struggles of folks like Rosa Parks or MLK anytime he hears a video-cam running. A more interesting question is whether dramatic accusations of racism or anti-Semitism true or not are ever used to mask more subtle curiosities. The essence of the Mayor's or the Springer family's outrage at Mr. Stone’s comments, might be mishpochan. Perhaps a more reasonable solution to the whole noisy issue would simply be to rename Kingston's Market Square to old Machatonim Square.

[Lydia]

Thank you for sharing another way of looking at Howard's STone's Comments.

The first thing i would like to state as clearly as i possibly can is this; When I first learned about the way people felt about the issue being Racists is when a Street Representative quit on me. I had not even known that Harold was going to speak on renaming the square.

The issue of renaming the square was NOT i repeat NOT an issues that ANY of the CHAIR PEOPLE OF THE KINGSTON TAXPAYER'S ASSOCIATION decided to persue. Secondly, As Lydia I have to state when I speak for the Association or as Lydia the resident. This is TOTALLY UNDERSTOOD by all the Chair people.

All my District Representatives and Street Representatives have been INSTRUCTED to tell the residents whether the comments expressed is their OWN or the Association's stand.

Harold did not speak for the Association as a whole, only as a Citizen of this City. He has that right under the Charter of the Country.

Secondly, I WILL NEVER BE PART OF A RACIST GROUP. I WILL NEVER ENDORSE PUTTING DOWN ANYONE'S RELIGION, RACE, NATIONALITY. That is why I thank you for expressing your views on here and I can understand that things and comments are done under the table and then blow up into a hatred for people once enough people join. So thank you thank you for point your message out to us.

For ME ONLY, LYDIA the REsident, I firmly believe in my heart and soul that historical names should never be changed without public consultation. I also believe very strongly that Any family like the Springers should be appreciated, publicly recognized for the work that this family does for this city. As a resident of this city We should be happy and proud that this family is OUR FAMILY. They should be recognized by placing their names on NEW, I SAY NEW landmarks of this city. Springer LVEC, Springer Multiplex, Springer Memorial Gardens at the Memorial Centrer.(lol lol)

Now why would that be so wrong? Why would that not be a policy of this city?

So much for that, Thanks again for showing the other side of things.

[Emerald]

Juat because you cant define it doesnt mean it doesnt exist. We know it when we see it.

[Don Anderson]

I wasn’t implying anyone in particular intended to play a race card but it ended up being played anyway. Things like this have a way of beginning in reasonable discussion but there is no guarantee it will end that way. A mean thoughtless statement answered in suspicion, changes the backdrop of the issue and before you know it we’ve all paid to see the Hatfields and McCoys in a spelling bee. Guys like Stone can sound malicious when really there is a consensus of reasonable fear and loss at the bottom of it all. Then everyone goes home and kisses their kids goodnight.


Personally, I think in this age of change when we wake up and have to look out the window to remember where we live, traditions and heritage are becoming more important to many folks. I'm sure Harvey wouldn't disagree. I'm using his name rather than his title because his response for perhaps good reason was more personal than professional.


Harvey Lear- Meanwhile we shall express our darker purpose. Give me the map there. Know that we have divided in three our kingdom and 'tis our fast intent to shake all cares and business from our age - conferring on them public strenths ...

[Lydia]

I understand Don that you were not imply that there was anything and that you are just showing how things can be misunderstood and also now racism can be a hidden thing until it flare's it's ugly head.

You will always have people who are prejudists(??) no matter what. I just thank god that the people I have met in Kingston are people who are willing to express their own concerns.

Openness is the only way to squish hatred of anyone. So again thank you Don for your input here. I personally appreciate it very much.

[Rob Matheson]

To steer attention away from the central issue which is a flawed inequitable process that was followed to allow the renaming of a central Kingston Landmark in the Market Square.

If Kingston going forward is going to be selling naming rights to the LVEC, the Multiplex and any other Kingston landmark. Then a tender process must be put in place to make it fair, open and above all equitable, and that allows public input before any such deal is ever consumated.

I do not agree with Mr Stone's comments at all. This is not a conflict of cultures, but a conflict of ethics. Unfortunately Mr Stone's comments seem to have taken away from the central issue. That being if your going to sell anything, including a name, you put it out there for open bidding. You don't make a deal with one person without an open process that can withstand public scrutiny. You also include the public in that same process as well.

I appreciate immensely the Springer's contribution to both the Market Square and overall to Kingston itself. Each cultural community that makes up our great city has proactive individuals wanting to make this an even better city. None of they're efforts should ever be diminished, or called into question on cultural or racist grounds.

I disagee with the renaming of Market Square, not on cultural grounds but on fair business practice grounds. That is the central issue here a conflict of ethics not cultures. This is what really needs addressed. The fact that a Citizens Group is taking the City to court to challenge that process, in an indication that something indeed may be amiss.

Mr Stone's comments should indeed be taken as personal statments and in no way should they ever be construed as coming from the Kingston Taxpayers Federation nor should yours or any group suffer any overt consquences from such a statement made by one of it's members in a personal statement. No group can control any indviduals right to free speech, nor should they.

As a candidate for Council in the Loyalist Cataraqui District 2 area, if elected I will work to improve and make transparent the bidding and tendering process for all public projects, renaming rights included. I am also a firm believer in direct democracy, and once all the possible choices or solutions have been arrived at, in whatever issue. The public MUST be included in the final decision. In today's world if people can be consulted on the formation of a group like "Rockstar Supernova", we should also be consulted directly on items that affect our everyday lives. The technology is available to make it a very simple endeavor indeed.

Just imagine if through a tendering process that another person or group had come up with $10 million for the renaming rights. That affects directly our lives in the level of any tax burden we now share in the renovation of The Grand, the LVEC or the Multiplex, not to mention the ongoing infrastructure items needing addressed.

It is incumbent on City Council to always make sure we are getting the best deal, not the easiest to arrive at. Done through a fair and equitable process.

Sincerely,

Robert Matheson
Candidate for Council
Loyalist Cataraqui District 2

[Lydia]

Robert, Thank you Thank you Thank you.

You stated EXACTLY, what my points on these issues are. However, you said it much more elegantly and intelligently. That is the reason we need YOU on council and me helping lmao.

I will never become a candidate in elections, however, I certain can help people like you become one.

[Rob Matheson]

Lydia, without concerned Citizens like you doing your part in making a difference. Those like myself wanting to make that same difference would never have a chance of getting elected. I thank you immensely for your vote, and intention of helping me getting elected to serve the community we all love.

Thankyou Lydia and everyone here using these forums, for your keen interest in voicing your concerns, and debating your differences while offering solutions to the issues that face all of us. Together we can make a difference.

I encourage all of you here to seek out the most progressive candidates in your respective Districts, and do all you can to help them serve you, and make that difference on your behalf on City Council.

Sincerely,

Rob Matheson
Candidate
Loyalis Cataraqui District 2