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View Full Version : Debate, delay, defer, dawdle and invent unnecessary processes until big projects die



keoadmin
09-21-2005, 01:51 PM
Let’s assume for a moment that the much-touted LVEC was summarily killed Tuesday night. There are those who will disagree of course, but let’s face it, when you don’t have a majority of council votes, you don’t have much of a project. Oh sure, we can study the North Block and argue over its merits as a proposed site for a while but let’s not forget that the area around the North Block is full of coal tar and would be astronomically expensive to clean up and work around. There are significant environmental liability issues, not to mention that if the North Block parking capacity is taken up by a building, local parking enthusiasts may actually have a legitimate complaint about the lack of space to park for hockey games.

Since the majority of councillors clearly stated an aversion to an Anglin Bay site, then let’s say, for the sake of argument, that at the moment Kingston does not have a Large Venue Entertainment Centre on the table. What does that mean? For starters, it means the Kingston Frontenacs will no doubt be looking for a new home. Fortunately for the Fronts, there is no short supply of cities that have, or would build, a new hockey arena if it meant attracting an OHL team. If you don’t know why the Fronts have difficulty attracting the best players and packing the stands with fans, go take a look at the Memorial Centre. Then look at full houses in Barrie, London and the rest of the cities with top-flight teams and reasonably new arenas. An interesting side note: Lots of times players in those cities just go to the rink and play hockey. They don’t always have to skate around flailing their arms in the air to lift the fog first.

Maybe losing the Frontenacs isn’t such a big deal. Maybe it’s no big deal either that concerts and stage plays and ice shows and big tournaments pass us by because of the deplorable condition of the Memorial Centre. Who needs all that ticket money and parking money and bar and restaurant and shopping money anyway? Who especially needs it downtown? Let the businesses on lower Princess Street rot in favour of big box strip malls in the west end. Who cares if the downtown deteriorates into shabbiness and Kingston’s tourism industry craters? Maybe we can ask the Fred Laflammes, Walter Fenlons, Kim Donovans and George Hoods to ask for more handouts. Since they seem so willing to dedicate time and expertise to raise money for the Grand Theatre and Market Square, why not ask them to find the cash to pave the roads, pick up the garbage and fix up some of the aging buildings and sewer pipes while they are at it?

Who or what do we have to thank for killing a project the citizens of Kingston clearly ordered Mayor Rosen and his council to deliver two years ago?

Politics. Eleven of 13 councillors voted in favour of the first set of task force recommendations, which included the Anglin Bay site. Why did so many councillors suddenly change their vote?

The Whig-Standard. To give credit where credit is due, the Whig has become far more balanced in its coverage of LVEC the last couple of weeks. Nonetheless, a year of one-sided reporting that focused mainly the complaints of the anti-arena group incited unnecessary controversy and skewed public opinion against the project.

Kingstonians Concerned About LVEC. A small group of citizens opposed to the Anglin Bay site have created a pressure cooker around this project. Those who dare hold a favourable opinion risk being subjected to public ridicule.

Kingston-think. It’s just not in the City of Kingston’s nature to accomplish anything. Debate, delay, defer, dawdle and invent unnecessary processes until big projects die a painful death.

-- I.M.Pertinent

Jane
09-22-2005, 06:15 PM
Who can look into the mind of Beth Pater? Is she having trouble reconciling her personal views with those of her constituents? I have a suggestion; let Pater and Smith change wards next election. Both will feel more comfortable.

Lydia
09-27-2005, 03:23 PM
I.M. Pertinent
-You are soooo full of crap it isn't funny. First of all over 4000 people of Kingston isn't a small group of people. The 6 blue shirted jerks that are Friends of LVEC are.
4000 members of the city are tried of people who want us to PAY FOR developments that are written off in tax breaks to them because of gifts to the city. Besides if these people who are in favour of the LVEC would promise not to get or take exclusive rights for businesses at centers, then maybe people would trust the process. The taxpayer never gets those tax breaks, we only PAY FOR EXPENSES.

You don’t have much of a project to begin with when you have a closed mind when you try to pull the wool over people's eyes. A housewife has more brains than the Deloitte and Touche in finding out the financial implications of this venture. You don't have much of a project when you are lying or choosing NOT TO DISCLOSE ALL COSTS OF THIS VENTURE.

Thank you for point out even more reason for the LVEC not to be ""ON TWO OR THREE BLOCKS"" YOU CALL DOWN TOWN. You did it beautiful with the following statement. "Oh sure, we can study the North Block and argue over its merits as a proposed site for a while but let’s not forget that the area around the North Block is full of coal tar and would be astronomically expensive to clean up and work around. There are significant environmental liability issues, not to mention that if the North Block parking capacity is taken up by a building, local parking enthusiasts may actually have a legitimate complaint about the lack of space to park for hockey games."

If the Kingston Frontenacs truly ONLY WANT A NEWER LOCATION then they should be happy with any building built for them in the LOCATIONS THE TAXPAYERS WANT.
If The Fronts have had difficulty attracting the best players and packing the stand with fans, GO TO THE CITY MISMANAGEMENT FINANCIAL GROUP. As taxpayers we paid our taxes, Why did they screw things up so badly. Why didn't they look after these centers to be begin with. What makes you think that after the LVEC is actually build that these same jack assets won't do the same thing with the LVEC in 10 to 15 years????

You pointed out another reason NOT TO BUILD DOWNTOWN when you said that in Barrie, and London the playrs in those cities just go to the rink and play hockey. You mean then don't STAY DOWN TOWN????

The only fog that is present today in Kingston is in the minds of the supporters of the LVEC being at Anglin Bay

You are sooo full of it!!! Of course losing the Frontenacs is a big deal. However, That is their choice if they want to leave instead of being at a New Development Called LVEC in another part of the city. The LVEC WILL BE BUILT (maybe not down town on 2 to 3 blocks but truly downtown in a community around the Memorial Center or even (heaven forbid the West or North End of the city)

Don't blame the the community for the deplorable conditions of the Memorial Centre blame CITY HALL AND THEIR FINANCIAL ADVISORS.

Just maybe businesses would not ROT IN FAVOUR OF BIG BOX STRIP MALLS if THERE WAS """"FREE PARKING"" downtown???? I guess that fact that you are soooooooooo jealous these "Big box strip malls in the west end" indicates that today's future society is NOT STUPID. This society ( the 21 century one) will not LET you charge for something that is free like Parking inorder to get merchandize.

Cartering to the Kingston tourism industry happens by CLOSING LAKE ONTARIO PARK? Cartering by destroying excisting industries on Anglin Bay? Interesting. Catering to the tourism industry by DESTROYING OUR LAKE FRONTAGES???

Are you saying that Fred Laflammes, Walter Fenlons, Kim Donovans and George Hoods are paying for our services with handouts? Interesting, What the hell are you paying taxes for anyway? Let's get them to pay for everything. since they seem so willing to dedicate time and expertise to raise money for the Grand Theatre and Market Square like you said. However, I must remind you that there are over 116,000 people in this city all of whom pay TAXES and should have a say.

Instead of asking them to pave the roads, pick up the garbage and fix up some of the aging buildings and sewer pipes while they are at it TRYING MANAGING YOUR TAX DOLLARS OFFICIENTLY INSTEAD OF SCREW US.

Don't worry all will be well again when the Kingston ELECTORIAL District Taxpayer's Association gets involved. They will bring prosperity back to this downtown area again, Then the Frontenacs, the Fred Laflammes, Walter Fenlongs, Kim Donovans, and George Hoods, will be richer by far by JOINING US INSTEAD OF being used by the City. Richer because they will be able to have a say in things instead of ordering the residents in this city of what we want. Otherwise, who cares, like you said. I for one CARE.

Did you notice that the Township of Kingston councilors WHEN TO THE AID OF THE RESIDENTS IN THE DOWNTOWN area. How come the others choose to use dirty tactics instead of actually voting against Anglin Bay??? How come the ""Down Town councilors choose not IGNORE their own tax payers?? How come George Sutherland openly said "MY PEOPLE DO NOT WANT A DOWNTOWN LVEC" however, ''HERE IS AN AMENDMENT to consider the North Block" (which you just outlined would also not be a great place)

The Whig-Standard. To give credit where credit is due, the Whig has become far more balanced in its coverage of LVEC the last couple of weeks.
The Whig has shown how the Friends of the LVEC have been hewing public opinion for the project at Anglin Bay. Also try the Friends of the LVEC web pages. Full of has beens or sorry (Formers) This is where you will see Shewing public opinions done by a small group.

Incitefull people are the Friends of LVEC who think NOTHING OF ATTACKING COUNCIL MEMBERS by trying intimation tactics until they are steered down. If you are in favour of the project then God Bless you because you will need it, however, do expect to be ridiculed especially when you are trying to FORCE YOUR WILL OVER THE WILL OF THE MAJORITY OF TAXPAYERS.

Kingston-think! It IS in the City of Kingston’s nature to accomplish anything. Debate, delay, defer, dawdle and invent necessary processes AND enjoy big projects and development. Let us be open, lets us get what we want, where we want it and let us never be BULLIED by people with dollars.

Remember when they give willingly without concessions, we shall support them. When they try to buy concessions remember it is always done by giving your tax dollars away to them.

I have one question " WHY DON'T WE THE CITY TAKE A REFERANDUM ON THIS MATTER" Heaven forbid, Maybe the 116,000 of us really don't even want these big venues, Maybe we need to look at what we truly want????