macphail
09-15-2004, 10:06 AM
I find it very interesting that the LVEC Task Force took it upon themselves to tout $28.5-million as the price tag for construction, only until now to say that it could run upwards of $54-million.
It is unfortunate that the members of council who sat on the committee/task force did not share this information with the rest of council, and more importantly, the public. Local government should be open and accountable, things I feel this council is lacking.
Cheers, Derek
Printed from www.thewhig.com web site Wednesday, September 15, 2004 - © 2004 The Kingston Whig-Standard
Arena panel warns costs could reach up to $54 million
By Derek Baldwin
Wednesday, September 15, 2004 - 07:00
Local News - The $28.5-million price tag on the city’s proposed waterfront arena is, at best, a rough guess, the arena steering committee was told yesterday.
Firm numbers won’t be available until studies pin down specific details of the proposed centre on Anglin Bay.
That was the assessment offered yesterday by members of the Mayor’s Task Force, which handed down 13 recommendations to Mayor Harvey Rosen in April.
Task force members briefed the new steering committee in an early-morning session in the councillors’ lounge at City Hall.
Chief administrative officer Bert Meunier asked task force members how they arrived at the $28.5-million estimate and what design elements were included in that figure.
Task force members spoke candidly of their struggle to come up with a preliminary cost for the biggest municipal project in a half-century.
“The process, given the 100 days we were given, was a difficult question to answer,” Martin Skolnick said. “We looked at an awful lot of facilities and, more important, we talked to an awful lot of people in the industry to garner an estimate of what these facilities cost. And the range was, frankly, between $18 million and $54 million.”
Skolnick said costs quickly added up from land acquisition and significant site constraints to fixtures and equipment.
“It depends on the type of flexibility you want to bring to this facility. This is where your costs are,” he said.
Determining the precise cost so early in the process was difficult, he said.
“It’s a shot in the dark, to be perfectly frank,” Skolnick said. “We don’t know. There are no drawings. We don’t know what it will cost to buy the site.”
Skolnick said the $28.5-million estimate doesn’t include some aspects of the project.
“It doesn’t include road infrastructure, parking, other than the 300 parking spaces on site,” he said.
There could be additional parking spaces built on site for transport trailers, disability parking, bus shuttles, taxis “to help us move people in and out,” he said.
Task force member Joe de Mora said “it was difficult to get a gross square per footage cost because [the project] was so different.”
To come up with an estimate, de Mora said the task force toured the 9,000-seat John Labatt Centre, operated by Global Spectrum Facility Management, in London, Ont.
The task force then scaled down the building on paper.
By retooling the London centre to fit Kingston’s needs, the task force “got to the point where we could build something this size and it would still not be prohibitively expensive.”
In the process, de Mora said the task force learned that Kingston didn’t have to spend exorbitantly to come up with an arena that could host both Ontario Hockey League games and large-scale concerts.
“We believe that just because the building looks stunning doesn’t mean it should cost a fortune. You can build a building that doesn’t cost an arm and a leg,” de Mora said.
“On the other hand, you could build something that looks like a dump and it will cost you an arm and a leg, depending on how you do it.”
He said the task force did the best it could to come up with a starting number.
“Again, the estimate is an estimate. Frankly, my own druthers would be that we actually spend more.”
He didn’t say how much more.
By spending more, de Mora said Kingston could build an arena that would identify the city.
He cited the opera house in Sydney, Australia, as an example.
To help pin down costs in the coming months, Skolnick told the steering committee that someone with experience in operations needs to be brought into the process as soon as possible.
During its tours of arenas in Guelph, Mississauga, London and Barrie, the task force learned from officials in those cities that leaving arena experts out of the process led to big problems that cost money or limited use of the buildings later on.
Small but vital building details have been omitted from other arenas when they could easily been caught beforehand by a trained expert, Skolnick said.
“It’s imperative these people are involved from the very beginning,” he said.
Steering committee member George Hood asked the task force members if they could “make a list of things you have seen – that would be enormously helpful.”
Hood asked that the list be presented to the steering committee before it embarks on its own road trip across Ontario to size up arenas.
The committee chairman, Councillor Ed Smith, said it “was relevant to have a short list” when assessing other arenas.
Meunier said a new project manager for the arena will greatly help troubleshoot the plans to avoid any oversights.
So far, Meunier said, efforts by the committee and city staff to hire the project manager have progressed well.
Following last week’s interviews of two shortlisted applicants, Meunier said the city expects to reveal the identity of the contract project manager later this week.
He also told the committee he expects preliminary studies for the riverfront arena to start trickling in by late October.
The steering committee will hold its third meeting Oct. 12 at 7 a.m. at City Hall.
It is unfortunate that the members of council who sat on the committee/task force did not share this information with the rest of council, and more importantly, the public. Local government should be open and accountable, things I feel this council is lacking.
Cheers, Derek
Printed from www.thewhig.com web site Wednesday, September 15, 2004 - © 2004 The Kingston Whig-Standard
Arena panel warns costs could reach up to $54 million
By Derek Baldwin
Wednesday, September 15, 2004 - 07:00
Local News - The $28.5-million price tag on the city’s proposed waterfront arena is, at best, a rough guess, the arena steering committee was told yesterday.
Firm numbers won’t be available until studies pin down specific details of the proposed centre on Anglin Bay.
That was the assessment offered yesterday by members of the Mayor’s Task Force, which handed down 13 recommendations to Mayor Harvey Rosen in April.
Task force members briefed the new steering committee in an early-morning session in the councillors’ lounge at City Hall.
Chief administrative officer Bert Meunier asked task force members how they arrived at the $28.5-million estimate and what design elements were included in that figure.
Task force members spoke candidly of their struggle to come up with a preliminary cost for the biggest municipal project in a half-century.
“The process, given the 100 days we were given, was a difficult question to answer,” Martin Skolnick said. “We looked at an awful lot of facilities and, more important, we talked to an awful lot of people in the industry to garner an estimate of what these facilities cost. And the range was, frankly, between $18 million and $54 million.”
Skolnick said costs quickly added up from land acquisition and significant site constraints to fixtures and equipment.
“It depends on the type of flexibility you want to bring to this facility. This is where your costs are,” he said.
Determining the precise cost so early in the process was difficult, he said.
“It’s a shot in the dark, to be perfectly frank,” Skolnick said. “We don’t know. There are no drawings. We don’t know what it will cost to buy the site.”
Skolnick said the $28.5-million estimate doesn’t include some aspects of the project.
“It doesn’t include road infrastructure, parking, other than the 300 parking spaces on site,” he said.
There could be additional parking spaces built on site for transport trailers, disability parking, bus shuttles, taxis “to help us move people in and out,” he said.
Task force member Joe de Mora said “it was difficult to get a gross square per footage cost because [the project] was so different.”
To come up with an estimate, de Mora said the task force toured the 9,000-seat John Labatt Centre, operated by Global Spectrum Facility Management, in London, Ont.
The task force then scaled down the building on paper.
By retooling the London centre to fit Kingston’s needs, the task force “got to the point where we could build something this size and it would still not be prohibitively expensive.”
In the process, de Mora said the task force learned that Kingston didn’t have to spend exorbitantly to come up with an arena that could host both Ontario Hockey League games and large-scale concerts.
“We believe that just because the building looks stunning doesn’t mean it should cost a fortune. You can build a building that doesn’t cost an arm and a leg,” de Mora said.
“On the other hand, you could build something that looks like a dump and it will cost you an arm and a leg, depending on how you do it.”
He said the task force did the best it could to come up with a starting number.
“Again, the estimate is an estimate. Frankly, my own druthers would be that we actually spend more.”
He didn’t say how much more.
By spending more, de Mora said Kingston could build an arena that would identify the city.
He cited the opera house in Sydney, Australia, as an example.
To help pin down costs in the coming months, Skolnick told the steering committee that someone with experience in operations needs to be brought into the process as soon as possible.
During its tours of arenas in Guelph, Mississauga, London and Barrie, the task force learned from officials in those cities that leaving arena experts out of the process led to big problems that cost money or limited use of the buildings later on.
Small but vital building details have been omitted from other arenas when they could easily been caught beforehand by a trained expert, Skolnick said.
“It’s imperative these people are involved from the very beginning,” he said.
Steering committee member George Hood asked the task force members if they could “make a list of things you have seen – that would be enormously helpful.”
Hood asked that the list be presented to the steering committee before it embarks on its own road trip across Ontario to size up arenas.
The committee chairman, Councillor Ed Smith, said it “was relevant to have a short list” when assessing other arenas.
Meunier said a new project manager for the arena will greatly help troubleshoot the plans to avoid any oversights.
So far, Meunier said, efforts by the committee and city staff to hire the project manager have progressed well.
Following last week’s interviews of two shortlisted applicants, Meunier said the city expects to reveal the identity of the contract project manager later this week.
He also told the committee he expects preliminary studies for the riverfront arena to start trickling in by late October.
The steering committee will hold its third meeting Oct. 12 at 7 a.m. at City Hall.