keoadmin
04-19-2004, 11:18 PM
QUESTIONS KINGSTON CITY COUNCILLORS SHOULD ASK ABOUT
The Mayor’s Memorial Centre Task Force Report
Kingston Electors sent the following questions to councillors and mayors on April 13 so that they could ask relevant questions as they read the Task Force Report distributed to them this week.
As of that date, Kingston Electors had not seen the final report. We only know about the new centre’s usage: hockey and large venue entertainment. We have no concrete information about size, location, cost, and financing.
The following information outlines our involvement with the issue.
1) Three Kingston Electors members attended the Friday afternoon Task force meetings that were open to the public (each meeting also held in camera sessions that were not available for our observation). The task force meetings were held on December 19, January 9, January 23, and February 20. A member also attended the Pubic Meeting held at City Hall on the evening of February 11. After February 20, the committee was not open for public observation. Reports of discussion at most of these meetings were posted on our website, although a couple of meetings had no relevant material to report.
Those who attended these meetings mentioned how impressed they were with the calibre of the task force members; they were organized, hard working, and thorough. We were also aware that much of the substance of the plans was not made available to the public. We recognize that it is up to the municipal councillors, however, to decide about the overall viability of the suggested project and decide on where such a large expenditure fits into the city's budget priorities.
2) We read the two earlier reports prepared for the City about the Memorial Centre problems, development of a new centre, etc. These reports were:
a) Kingston 2000 Development Ltd. – Project Feasibility: Review by Arthur Anderson for the City of Kingston, Submitted: October 5, 2000 (2000 Report)
b) Kingston Community Memorial Health and Recreation Centre: Feasibility Study: Parkin Consultants Limited, Final Report: April 1993 (1993 Report)
3) We organized our Website to disseminate information as well as to gather information from local citizens about their views and knowledge and experiences with large venue entertainment centres. Because many of these articles are too long to distribute, we encourage you to view the website: www.kingstonelectors.ca to view comments and information about other cities in Ontario and elsewhere.
THE ISSUES TO BE CLARIFIED
1) USAGE: Questions for Councillors: What are the ACTUAL number of events and types of events held during the past four years in the existing Memorial Centre?
In response to the Kingston 2000 proposal, Anderson Consulting reported “… a more appropriate and sustainable number of events is likely in the range of 65 to 71 events in total.
… comprised of: 37 to 38 OHL games (a little over ½ of the events are hockey games); 4 to 6 other sporting events; 6 to 8 concerts and family shows; 6 to 8 trade and consumer shows; up to 12 other community events” (Convention Auditorium Development, Page 7 of 2000 Report).
Depending on how long the trade and consumer shows run, there could be more than 275 days when the facility is not being used for financially contributing events, i.e. not bringing in money from ticket holders.
2) SIZE: Question for Councillors: What are the ACTUAL attendance figures for events for the past four years in the existing Memorial Centre?
Stats Canada and the Ontario Hockey League (OHL) identify the number of seats required to support various types of events.
- A 2500-seat facility supports hockey games and regular arena functions.
- A 3500-seat facility adds space for small concerts and small exhibits.
- With 4500 to 6500 seats, the facility provides additional space for children’s acts, ice shows, agricultural, sporting, trade shows, and larger concerts.
Most OHL franchises average about 5200 seats. Mississauga has 6500 seats; London has 9000 seats, Barrie (Kingston’s comparison city – see below) has 4200 seats. The OHL suggests 4000 to 5000 seats for Kingston.
Some contributing factors:
For Large Venue Entertainment Events, distance from other major cities is of crucial consideration. Large concerts (A and B Level performers) usually have a radius clause. Kingston is within the radius of Ottawa so many larger concerts would not likely occur in Kingston (unlike London that is outside Toronto’s radius). Residents of Brockville, Belleville, Smiths Falls may be incorporated into the radius of larger cities (Ottawa and Toronto) as well as Kingston, so residents of these cities have two choices: Kingston and/or Toronto and Ottawa.
Since hockey games account for over 50% of events, their ticket sales are crucial to financing the new arena. The existing Memorial Centre capacity is approximately 3000 seats. Recent Kingston Frontenacs attendance averages 2250 per game with 1100 season ticket holders. (2004 Task Force figures).
The Kingston Raiders (?) averaged 1500 in the 1986/87 season and 1200 persons in the 1987/88 season. Smaller hockey leagues attracted 200 persons. (1993 Report)
OHL Attendance: Only Ottawa, Kitchener and Sarnia averaged over 4000 fans per game during the most recently completed OHL season, and only Kitchener has consistently attracted this many fans since 1993/94. Kingston, on the other hand, attracted 89,032 fans during the 1999/2000 season (2619 per game), and has averaged some 2650 fans per game since 1994/95. (2000 Report)
While there is no question that a new building will automatically serve to increase attendance, there is significant risk that the Team (and hence the building) will not be able to sustain this level of attendance over the medium to longer term. (2000 Report)
3) LOCATION: The M-C task force has not announced the location to the public; however, no mention was made of using the existing site.
In the past, the City has reviewed several sites and eliminated most of them.
- 401 (difficult to service, impossible to alter access from 401)
- Gardiner’s Road (land too expensive, more suitable for other purposes)
- Block D (many reasons listed in the Anderson Consulting report)
- Existing M-C site. Considered in the 1993 report, no one is mentioning this site today.
- Johnson and Sir John A Blvd. (Queen’s University land)
- Downtown (Queen Street, Wellington area). Seems a high priority, but the task force has not made an announcement. It may also be considered for other uses.
4) COSTS AND FINANCING: The M-C Task Force did not mention the financial arrangements during their public meetings though they mentioned that they do not want this project to increase local taxes.
If funding is to come from users (ticket prices) be aware of the recent Ryan Malcolm concert. Some residents sent letters to the Whig complaining that with ticket prices at $37, few families would be able to attend. There is a ceiling where prices will eliminate a portion of the population.
Private/public partnership is always mentioned. Be aware that in Barrie, Molson only donated land, not money. The private company in partnership with Ottawa Corel Centre went bankrupt and left that city with an undisclosed public debt.
The two earlier reports to the City (1993 Report and 2000 Report) concur: “The City is not risk-free regardless of the decisions.”
5) COMPARISON CITY: Question for Councillors: Is age demographics included in the comparison?
It is our understanding that Barrie is most similar to Kingston in terms of population and was the city to be compared with Kingston. Were age demographics included in the comparison? This facility will be built for the future so the attendance will depend largely on the demographics of the future population. Attendance at pre-school facilities, elementary schools, universities, and housing have seen the impact of age demographics. How will this factor impact on future use for Large Venue Entertainment Centres and hockey games?
6) The FINAL QUESTION: Where does the M-C place in Kingston’s “big ticket” priorities?
The previous council approved a Strategic Plan outlining priorities for the next ten years. To fit into this Plan, the Memorial Centre is placed under “Infrastructure.” Is this where a Large Entertainment Venue Centre belongs? – in conflict with roads, police, etc. If it is within culture and recreation, is it in conflict with new arenas?
The Mayor’s Memorial Centre Task Force Report
Kingston Electors sent the following questions to councillors and mayors on April 13 so that they could ask relevant questions as they read the Task Force Report distributed to them this week.
As of that date, Kingston Electors had not seen the final report. We only know about the new centre’s usage: hockey and large venue entertainment. We have no concrete information about size, location, cost, and financing.
The following information outlines our involvement with the issue.
1) Three Kingston Electors members attended the Friday afternoon Task force meetings that were open to the public (each meeting also held in camera sessions that were not available for our observation). The task force meetings were held on December 19, January 9, January 23, and February 20. A member also attended the Pubic Meeting held at City Hall on the evening of February 11. After February 20, the committee was not open for public observation. Reports of discussion at most of these meetings were posted on our website, although a couple of meetings had no relevant material to report.
Those who attended these meetings mentioned how impressed they were with the calibre of the task force members; they were organized, hard working, and thorough. We were also aware that much of the substance of the plans was not made available to the public. We recognize that it is up to the municipal councillors, however, to decide about the overall viability of the suggested project and decide on where such a large expenditure fits into the city's budget priorities.
2) We read the two earlier reports prepared for the City about the Memorial Centre problems, development of a new centre, etc. These reports were:
a) Kingston 2000 Development Ltd. – Project Feasibility: Review by Arthur Anderson for the City of Kingston, Submitted: October 5, 2000 (2000 Report)
b) Kingston Community Memorial Health and Recreation Centre: Feasibility Study: Parkin Consultants Limited, Final Report: April 1993 (1993 Report)
3) We organized our Website to disseminate information as well as to gather information from local citizens about their views and knowledge and experiences with large venue entertainment centres. Because many of these articles are too long to distribute, we encourage you to view the website: www.kingstonelectors.ca to view comments and information about other cities in Ontario and elsewhere.
THE ISSUES TO BE CLARIFIED
1) USAGE: Questions for Councillors: What are the ACTUAL number of events and types of events held during the past four years in the existing Memorial Centre?
In response to the Kingston 2000 proposal, Anderson Consulting reported “… a more appropriate and sustainable number of events is likely in the range of 65 to 71 events in total.
… comprised of: 37 to 38 OHL games (a little over ½ of the events are hockey games); 4 to 6 other sporting events; 6 to 8 concerts and family shows; 6 to 8 trade and consumer shows; up to 12 other community events” (Convention Auditorium Development, Page 7 of 2000 Report).
Depending on how long the trade and consumer shows run, there could be more than 275 days when the facility is not being used for financially contributing events, i.e. not bringing in money from ticket holders.
2) SIZE: Question for Councillors: What are the ACTUAL attendance figures for events for the past four years in the existing Memorial Centre?
Stats Canada and the Ontario Hockey League (OHL) identify the number of seats required to support various types of events.
- A 2500-seat facility supports hockey games and regular arena functions.
- A 3500-seat facility adds space for small concerts and small exhibits.
- With 4500 to 6500 seats, the facility provides additional space for children’s acts, ice shows, agricultural, sporting, trade shows, and larger concerts.
Most OHL franchises average about 5200 seats. Mississauga has 6500 seats; London has 9000 seats, Barrie (Kingston’s comparison city – see below) has 4200 seats. The OHL suggests 4000 to 5000 seats for Kingston.
Some contributing factors:
For Large Venue Entertainment Events, distance from other major cities is of crucial consideration. Large concerts (A and B Level performers) usually have a radius clause. Kingston is within the radius of Ottawa so many larger concerts would not likely occur in Kingston (unlike London that is outside Toronto’s radius). Residents of Brockville, Belleville, Smiths Falls may be incorporated into the radius of larger cities (Ottawa and Toronto) as well as Kingston, so residents of these cities have two choices: Kingston and/or Toronto and Ottawa.
Since hockey games account for over 50% of events, their ticket sales are crucial to financing the new arena. The existing Memorial Centre capacity is approximately 3000 seats. Recent Kingston Frontenacs attendance averages 2250 per game with 1100 season ticket holders. (2004 Task Force figures).
The Kingston Raiders (?) averaged 1500 in the 1986/87 season and 1200 persons in the 1987/88 season. Smaller hockey leagues attracted 200 persons. (1993 Report)
OHL Attendance: Only Ottawa, Kitchener and Sarnia averaged over 4000 fans per game during the most recently completed OHL season, and only Kitchener has consistently attracted this many fans since 1993/94. Kingston, on the other hand, attracted 89,032 fans during the 1999/2000 season (2619 per game), and has averaged some 2650 fans per game since 1994/95. (2000 Report)
While there is no question that a new building will automatically serve to increase attendance, there is significant risk that the Team (and hence the building) will not be able to sustain this level of attendance over the medium to longer term. (2000 Report)
3) LOCATION: The M-C task force has not announced the location to the public; however, no mention was made of using the existing site.
In the past, the City has reviewed several sites and eliminated most of them.
- 401 (difficult to service, impossible to alter access from 401)
- Gardiner’s Road (land too expensive, more suitable for other purposes)
- Block D (many reasons listed in the Anderson Consulting report)
- Existing M-C site. Considered in the 1993 report, no one is mentioning this site today.
- Johnson and Sir John A Blvd. (Queen’s University land)
- Downtown (Queen Street, Wellington area). Seems a high priority, but the task force has not made an announcement. It may also be considered for other uses.
4) COSTS AND FINANCING: The M-C Task Force did not mention the financial arrangements during their public meetings though they mentioned that they do not want this project to increase local taxes.
If funding is to come from users (ticket prices) be aware of the recent Ryan Malcolm concert. Some residents sent letters to the Whig complaining that with ticket prices at $37, few families would be able to attend. There is a ceiling where prices will eliminate a portion of the population.
Private/public partnership is always mentioned. Be aware that in Barrie, Molson only donated land, not money. The private company in partnership with Ottawa Corel Centre went bankrupt and left that city with an undisclosed public debt.
The two earlier reports to the City (1993 Report and 2000 Report) concur: “The City is not risk-free regardless of the decisions.”
5) COMPARISON CITY: Question for Councillors: Is age demographics included in the comparison?
It is our understanding that Barrie is most similar to Kingston in terms of population and was the city to be compared with Kingston. Were age demographics included in the comparison? This facility will be built for the future so the attendance will depend largely on the demographics of the future population. Attendance at pre-school facilities, elementary schools, universities, and housing have seen the impact of age demographics. How will this factor impact on future use for Large Venue Entertainment Centres and hockey games?
6) The FINAL QUESTION: Where does the M-C place in Kingston’s “big ticket” priorities?
The previous council approved a Strategic Plan outlining priorities for the next ten years. To fit into this Plan, the Memorial Centre is placed under “Infrastructure.” Is this where a Large Entertainment Venue Centre belongs? – in conflict with roads, police, etc. If it is within culture and recreation, is it in conflict with new arenas?