greenland's Kingston commentary

[greenland]

Watch here for my new commentary postings...

[Lydia]

Hi Greenland,

Welcome to our website. I am a Kingston Elector's Elder. I look forward to learning about your postings.

[greenland]

This is a new experience for me. Addressing several (hopefully) readers at once is quite energizing! There are so many environmental ideas, issues and solutions to share....I hope to be a positive influence by bringing an encouraging outlook. OK, I'll be gnashing my teeth over some things. Let's get together in this forum and encourage each other to be part of the solution! Topics coming to my mind right now are: pet waste (do we flush it or bag it?)....where are the non-carcinogenic shampoos in that haircare aisle?....the 100 mile diet....local food...biking, walking and public transit....smog days....litter in the parks (yeah, and why is there still littering going on right after Pitch-In Kingston day?)....We can move forward and take back our planet.

[greenland]

Hi Lydia,
Thanks for the welcome!
-greenland

[greenland]

Watch here for my new commentary postings...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZsDliXzyAY

Please view this video. Severn is an impassioned young lady and her message is very, very poignant.

[Lydia]

Please view this video. Severn is an impassioned young lady and her message is very, very poignant.

Wow what an incredible young lady. Isn't it interesting how a young lady like her can express what us older people think about all the big shots that have ruined our earth.

She was able to express exactly what the majority of people actually think but didn't have the guts to express it as well as she did.

Thanks for sharing this one Greenland.

[greenland]

What an intriguing read the paper was this morning.

1. From an article by Margaret Munro, pg. A4: "vast amounts of greenhouse gases could be stashed under the ocean floor from British Colunbia to California..." I am pleased to see that there'll be a pilot project first.
2. From an article by Jordana Huber, pg. A4: "Ontario will prohibit mining and forestry across a swath of northern boreal forest larger than the Maritime provinces.....part of a larger plan that will also include changes to the antiquated Mining Act..." I'm originally from Sudbury, so I love this new plan.
3. From an article by Tom Spears, p.A5: "One of the first direct impacts that global warming has on our health may hit us where it hurts: in the kidneys. People will develop more kidney stones in a hotter climate, because the heat tends to make us dehydrated and that causes the stones to form...". Scientists have been telling us for years that we are in for serious changes and now this! Each of us has to reevaluate every bit of our lives...so much to pay attention to.

[greenland]

Lydia--I love that Severn continues to work in the environmental movement. She is an inspiration to her generation. We need to listen to and respect our young folks. How does the average Kingstonian under 30 really think of how Kingston is changing? I hope they make their voices known.

[Dogma]

Greenland - welcome to our site.

I hope you will be balanced in your sense of environmental issues.

Especially, the reality of North American in terms of its current culture, population & infastructure, political will and historical perspectives on the environment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbVR7PTG0T0

[Lydia]

Tree Hugger, Balanced??? hum. Nice Site you took us to Dogma. First video Dan didn't even want to show his face. Geez.

The hell with the ""Balanced in your sense of environmental issues.

Especially, the reality of North American in terms of its current culture, population & infastructure, political will and historical perspectives on the environment."

What do you think is balanced anywhere in North America.

For that fact what the hell is balanced here in Kingston??? Well Ex cept for Dogma and Greenland. I refuse to be balanced.:D:D

There is NO fun in being balanced.

All kidding aside, I am looking forward to debate Greenland and your perspectives on Environmental issues. i.e. Pesticides issues.

Oh yes, Thanks for everyone who decided that I DON'T NEED WEED AND FEED. You guys are totally correct. I HAVE NO GRASS. I have a GREAT GREEN Lawn. Thank God Weeds are GREEN. I still hate Dandelions and All those other WEEDS stop them from being in my lawn. lol lol.

[greenland]

Why on this great green earth would you send such a video to anyone? You must not have all your roots in the ground.

[greenland]

I have a Local Food Directory and it's impressive how many farming establishments there are around Kingston. Desert Lake Gardens (uncertified Organic) has an online order form where one can order all kinds of organic, local, national and yes, some international food items. They deliver right to your door once a week. I can't get to the Farmer's Market downtown or even to Tara as often as I would like so this delivery option is fantastic. Here's their site: www.dlgardens.com . They carry Multatuli coffees and Pan Chancho breads as well.
I'm going to write more about these farms in the future.

[greenland]

Hi Lydia--You can throw all the arguments at me promoting pesticide use and I will still oppose these chemicals. I'm not a politician nor a scientist but I know that I choke up when I walk past a lawn where these chemicals have been sprayed. I believe that fish and amphibians are suffering developmental changes due to the accumulation of pesticides in the ground water. It's the accumulation of these chemicals that is bringing the harm, besides the unfortunate number of people who misuse them.

[greenland]

http://www.stopcorporateabuse.org/cms/page1709.cfm


Choosing tap water is the responsible and healthy way to go. I am fortunate to have a reverse-osmosis system and I can report that it is worth the expenditure to have installed.

[Civic]

Welcome to Kingston Electors greenland.

I look forward to reading or viewing your future eco commentary.

With the recent Ontario government announcement that electronic waste collection will begin next spring, it will be interesting to see if this begins to affect consumer buying habits. Perhaps we need to require electronic manufacturers to clearly label their products to flag what toxic and other materials have been used in producing them.

The following documentary, E-Waste, identifies some of the serious problems arising from electronic waste:

http://snagfilms.com/films/title/media_that_matters_8_e_waste/

[Lydia]

Greenland, I am interested in learning more about farms here in the 100 Mile area of Kingston. However, I have to admit that I don't want to spend an arm and a leg to get products at the prices some farmers are charging us at the present moment.

I see the problem as this:

When I can buy eggs at 1.99 a Dozen, why would i buy eggs at 5.99 a dozen. Oh yes you might say ORGANIC. Great tell people who CAN'T afford it that those eggs are ORGANIC.

When the farmers start charging what the Supermarket Chains charge us, Then and only Then will I be willing to support them.

I am totally against Farmers willing to send their best products to the United States instead of working towards having the Government allowing them to send those items to OUR Supermarkets.

I am also upset with the Farmers who sell their products and DON'T label that the products are CANADIAN. Government should FORCE them to label their products.

Recently I heard about a farmer in OUR area that sold products that were not from this area. However, they didn't give the customer the price that the supermarket would charge for the foreign product.

Where are the Co-Ops that where originally developed to help sell Canadian Farmer's products? Are there any around here?

Why don't the Farmers organize together to creat a STORE FRONT where people can walk in like they do supermarket Chains. Then ONLY sell Canadian products.

Greenland, I do want to learn more about our farmers and I will support them. However, I am not very happy with them at the present moment.

I appreciate your keeping us informed.

[Lydia]

Now Here is what I am Talking about. This is what I have been waiting for. Don't get me wrong. I am not AGAINST paying our Farmers more for local products. I just want everyone to have the opportunity to be able to pay for their products.

A Hugh Thank You for Jennifer Pritchett Whig Standard Environment Reporter for this one. Also Thank you Greenland for making this an issue on our site.

Farmers reap benefits of promotion
Cattlemen impressed by area's willingness to sell homegrown products

Posted By JENNIFER PRITCHETT WHIG-STANDARD ENVIRONMENT REPORTER


Kingston-area farmers are doing better than many across the province when it comes to promoting and selling locally produced food, says the president of the Ontario Cattlemen's Association.

"Every area is trying to get there, but this is as good as I've seen," Gord Hardy told the Whig-Standard.

Yesterday, he was one of about 50 members of the Ontario Cattlemen's Association who visited various locations around Kingston as part of the organization's summer advisory councillor meeting.

One of the group's first stops was to visit Kim and Dave Perry's store, Local Family Farms, in Verona. The beef farmers, who own Perry Maine-Anjon Farms in Harrowsmith, sell their own beef, as well as food grown or produced by other farmers in the area.

The family is able to keep the store open in the winter by selling homemade entrees and baked goods using the frozen items grown locally during the summer months.

By all accounts, the store has been a huge success, with customers in Kingston making the 30-minute drive to Verona to buy the fresh produce and other goods.

"I'm very impressed. What Dave and family have done here is amazing," said Hardy.

It's inspiring to see a small community recognize that they can sell local food.

"They're following everything the [Ontario Cattlemen's Association] and the provincial government are promoting - eating local, the 100-mile diet," said Hardy. "It's just great."

Indeed, there has been a movement in the Kingston area with the Food Down the Road project that promotes local food.

The project was also a key part of a local food summit held at St. Lawrence College last November. The event aimed to bring farmers together in order to increase public awareness about local food and to develop a system in which farmers could more readily sell it.

But Hardy said the biggest challenge for farmers to market local meat in large national grocery store chains remains a shortage of nearby abattoirs that are certified as federally inspected. The majority of abattoirs are provincially inspected slaughterhouses.

As a general rule, large grocery chains buy federally inspected meat.

"We have an initiative going right now that supports getting more expansion in the more under-serviced areas - including more slaughter facilities and fixing up the ones that are there and making them better," said Hardy.

There are many farmers across the province who have to truck their animals for hours in order to get their meat to slaughterhouses.

The Ontario Cattlemen's Association is lobbying to change this scenario to make it easier for farmers to sell their meat closer to home.

Kim Perry said her family found a way to sell its beef locally by opening up her own store.

"The large stores could not possibly carry local meat because meat off my farm would have to travel to an abattoir in a larger centre closer to Toronto ... unless there was a real focus to trace the meat because the consumer wanted local meat, there would be so little of the local product available [in the large stores] that no one would ever actually do that," she said.

"For you in Kingston to buy local, you have to go to a smaller, independent store to buy local beef."

Perry said provincially inspected meat is of a high standard and the public has nothing to worry about in terms of its safety.

"It's quality meat, it's healthy, it's maintained at proper temperatures," she said. "It's like potable water."

Her family owns one of a small number of stores in the Kingston area that sell local, provincially inspected meat.

Other city businesses that sell meat from Kingston's countryside include Bob's Butcher Shop, The Pig and Olive, Gary Greenlees and Barriefield Meat Market.

Perry said her business success is proof of the growing demand for local food.

A poll conducted in 2007 found that local food is in demand and people are willing to buy it. The only problem is, it has to be more readily available in order for people to buy it.

The poll, conducted by Environics in partnership with the Greenbelt Foundation in Toronto, found that 91 per cent of respondents say they would buy more local products if it was more convenient to do so.

It also found that eight people out of 10 say they prefer to buy local and more than half say they do buy local produce once a week.

[greenland]

Hi Civic--
Thanks for the welcome. Thanks for the link to the E-waste film...it was taking a while to load on my system so I'll view it later on.

Anyway...you are totally right to expect manufacturers to flag their equipment re: toxic components. I am all for that. Just think of the "my components are greener than so-and-so's" advertising we will soon see! Having retailers forced to take back (for recycling) their old equipment would be an idea worth looking into.

The "throw away,buy new" mentality is changing, albeit very slowly. At least we see a lot of "give away, buy new" now!

Re: electronic waste collection. I hope it's not going to be shipped to China!

Also, the mercury-containing compact fluorescent bulbs apparently give off a harmless smoky dischage when they die. How many people do you think know about this?

FYI--Frontenac H.S. has a used cellphone dropoff initiative going on...maybe postponed over the summer though.

[greenland]

Lydia---wow, you are into this topic! I plan to call the farmers listed in this Local Food Directory (eventually!) and write back here. Give me some time.
I have always been on the farmers' side especially since that tractor roadblock at Ottawa some years ago That really woke me up. That was a desperate shout-out, don't you agree??
Farmers have a lot of problems to contend with! Insurance, weather!!, seed types, companies like Monsanto bullying them, pests, (not to mention stupid people sneaking marijuana plants into their lower 40!), market forces, skilled workers, cost of fuel for their equipment, mortgage rates, etc.). Sure they don't work in a office cubicle and they seem to have the freedom of being outside, but that's darn hard work and they are entitled to be asking for good prices to make a living.
Food has been way underpriced anyway for too long! We have taken food availability totally for granted because of the ease of transporting foodstuffs. Well, the cost of fuel is changing this sense of entitlement.

By they way, Loblaws Cataraqui has a "Local" shelf now in their produce area...very prominent spot.

[Dogma]

I hope you will be balanced in your sense of environmental issues.


Lydia - I said (for Greenland) to have "a balanced sense of environmental issues" and KNOWLEDGE - not Kingston or anyone else.

Loblaws Greed-land?- you must be kidding! That's one of the WORST corporate companies for retail, food processing in the country!

Try Tara Foods. That's a no brainer....and have been providing "locally" grown, made products for years!

Sorry but, if your so knowledgeable about "environmental responsibility" I am surprised you would even consider Loblaws...first!

- YIKES. You are starting to scare me now....:eek:

What other suggests - does your experience think is environmentally responsible? :confused:

[Lydia]

Also, the mercury-containing compact fluorescent bulbs apparently give off a harmless smoky dischage when they die. How many people do you think know about this?


Wow Greenland, I didn't know about this smoky discharge. Of course I didn't have any compact fluorescent bulbs burn out on me. I don't keep light bulbs lighting up unless i am in the room with them.

Do you mean to tell me that all those lights that are fluorescent that we now use instead of the old fashion light bulb will create a smoky discharge. Aren't those lights suppose to be good to SAVE energy??

AND

I agree with paying our Farmers fairly, Maybe instead of spending lots of money on fuel that is used in transporting food from all over the world, That money could be GIVEN to the Farmers that are locally owned and operated.

If someone wants to get food from other parts of the world, thn LET THEM pay higher prices for them. Let's get AFFORDABLE food for people who are having trouble just putting food on the table.

I don't agree with you that Food has been underpriced for too long. However, I know that Food Prices will go up and have over time. Maybe by having low prices on Foods from the Canadian Food Guide and charging large sums on food that is packaged and prepared, everything would work to everyone's advantage. That way nutrician isn't scarified and junk will go where it should in the Junk pile. Just a thought.

Loblaws is a supermarket that I believe would work wonders if Farmers were allowed to sell their products on mass there.

Good Work Greenland

[Lydia]

Dogma, Tara Foods actually have been involved with the Supermarket Chains. They have been sending their foods to Chains like Oshawa Foods for years. (at Least the ones in Toronto have been)

Dogma, Loblaws is GREAT, friendly, and at least willing to bring in Canadian Foods and market them accordingly. Also they have tried to be informative about Heart Smart Foods.

Shame on you for picking on Loblaws and I DIDN'T EVEN WORK FOR THEM. lmao

Okay Oh Great One, Tell us about which companies OTHER THAN TARA that you think would sell locally owned foods in their stores. (Okay you are NOT the Great one,)

Dogma, you know I'm pulling your chain here. lol lol.

[greenland]

Lydia - I said (for Greenland) to have "a balanced sense of environmental issues" and KNOWLEDGE - not Kingston or anyone else.

Loblaws Greed-land?- you must be kidding! That's one of the WORST corporate companies for retail, food processing in the country!

Try Tara Foods. That's a no brainer....and have been providing "locally" grown, made products for years!

Sorry but, if your so knowledgeable about "environmental responsibility" I am surprised you would even consider Loblaws...first!

- YIKES. You are starting to scare me now....:eek:

What other suggests - does your experience think is environmentally responsible? :confused:
Dearest Dogma--"green huggers"...awwww, how warm and fuzzy is that?
I do support capitalism from time to time and if a large company with a cute spokesman like Galen Weston wants to make money off the latest green-and-good-for-me initiative, ie. healthy, fair-trade, organic, local, zero trans fat, etc. then I'm going to support them. Ahh, if only capitalism was good for me ALL the time.
(Loblaws and Loeb's are a few blocks away from me, so of course I'm going to MICRO shop, looking for organic and local).

[Dogma]

Tara Foods -

Greed-land - have you ever shopped there "regularly"?

If not your a "environmental" traitor.

Other "local" retailers - thats to easy!

Farmers Markets - they are in most populated areas, even Verona!

"Organic foods" etc.

That is B.S - when did (you types) suddenly decide to "buy into" the (slogan "Organic")?

To me and my parents generation - they are just local fruits and vegetables.

Marketed as: natural, organic or local "pure" products.

It is just marketers have brainwashed you and my "naturally" diplomatic & pretty Lydia - into thinking what we buy from most farms are "naturally" grown.

And that is nonsense.

Most "food" (with the general except of processed type foods) have and always (come from "Nature").

Just because some farms are spraying for aestetic reasons is BAD - does not mean they are not as "natural" - as the stuff you buy that is not sprayed - i.e many "naturally" farmed foods, get contaminated because they do not have any period of resistence to disease or storage life. Some are "radiated" for this reason...but generally these methods (Not DDT- ofcourse ) help us eat healthier foods for the masses. Remeber people - think outside the box here..most people in this world DO NOT have enough food to live on!

- Organics - are Not just for the few who can afford the "organic" trendy marquee.

"organically locally grown" you say. And charge double accordingly!

Frankly; there are many "natural" or organic "products" - I find taste like crap.

Again - you both need to really think about what is truely "organic" and what is healthy and best for all.

[Lydia]

Marketed as: natural, organic or local "pure" products.

It is just marketers have brainwashed you and my "naturally" diplomatic & pretty Lydia - into thinking what we buy from most farms are "naturally" grown.


I RESENT THE ABOVE REMARKS.

Firstly, you assumed I had a brain.
Secondly, Farms ARE as natural as you can get, especially the ones with Cows, Sheep, Goats, & Horses. You Can't Get more natural than that.

Thirdly, Just because I eat organic that does not make me PURE.

Fourth. Meaning of pretty (adverb)
moderately; quite; rather; to some extent

I have NEVER been modereate, or quite, Extent Yes but never the other two.:D:D

However, It is good to know that I am not for or against Organic foods. I like both the crap I have been buying and Organic. lmao.

[greenland]

Lydia--let's just do the best we can in moving forward with the healthiest foods we can afford, and that are available, hopefully with the 100-Mile Diet in mind.
Our bodies are already supposedly laden with toxins (remember what CBC's Wendy Mesley found out with her blood testing?) so all we can do is do the best we can.
Let's hope our grandchildren's bodies harbour fewer toxins by virtue of our efforts at making small steps toward supporting retailers which offer healthier choices.
Let's continue to support green changes.

A Local Farmers' Food Store would be fantastic!

[Dogma]

The ground has loads of "natural" radiation, what you are going to completely "smother" your children with protection.

Give me a break - enough is enough just let them grow up first so they can teach you...a few things about "natural organic" foods.

Obviously; you missed the bushel on this one!

[greenland]

Watch here for my new commentary postings...

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1732226,00.html

Here's a site describing the use of real flying insects for war purposes. They are "hybrid insects" to be guided by GPS systems. After the war, do you think this technology could be used for PEACEFUL purposes? Maybe these bugs could be used to search and destroy the African bees.:rolleyes::eek:

[greenland]

http://www.thestar.com/sciencetech/article/415215

"Methane hydrate deposits are a vast potential energy source". This is interesting to read. Canada and Japan are working on it together.

[greenland]

Greenland, I am interested in learning more about farms here in the 100 Mile area of Kingston. However, I have to admit that I don't want to spend an arm and a leg to get products at the prices some farmers are charging us at the present moment.

I see the problem as this:

When I can buy eggs at 1.99 a Dozen, why would i buy eggs at 5.99 a dozen. Oh yes you might say ORGANIC. Great tell people who CAN'T afford it that those eggs are ORGANIC.

When the farmers start charging what the Supermarket Chains charge us, Then and only Then will I be willing to support them.

I am totally against Farmers willing to send their best products to the United States instead of working towards having the Government allowing them to send those items to OUR Supermarkets.

I am also upset with the Farmers who sell their products and DON'T label that the products are CANADIAN. Government should FORCE them to label their products.

Recently I heard about a farmer in OUR area that sold products that were not from this area. However, they didn't give the customer the price that the supermarket would charge for the foreign product.

Where are the Co-Ops that where originally developed to help sell Canadian Farmer's products? Are there any around here?

Why don't the Farmers organize together to creat a STORE FRONT where people can walk in like they do supermarket Chains. Then ONLY sell Canadian products.

Greenland, I do want to learn more about our farmers and I will support them. However, I am not very happy with them at the present moment.

I appreciate your keeping us informed.

````````````````````

http://www.organicagcentre.ca/Issues/iss_welcome.asp

Here's a site explaining many of the issues facing organic farming. It will help us all to see this organic food issue from their side.

[Lydia]

Hum, wonder, could those GPS systems be tracking those darn insects when we are trying to use them for giving us directions to go from one side of town to the other??

Reason I wonder this is that when I ask for the quickest way, I usually find myself up north of this city on Highway 42 to go from Kingston to Prescott. I don't like the 401 and was hoping to find a slower way. lol lol.

I can just guarantee that it is tracking those darn insects. lol lol

[greenland]

Lydia--you have a wonderful sense of humour! lol...Thank you.
It's daunting that the U.S. military finds uses for our fauna....porpoises with the navy...now insects. I guess these insects will fight the new soldier-robots. War games for the technical age.
Their machinations will continue to cause static in our lives won't they?

[greenland]

Watch here for my new commentary postings...

Very interesting new book is out called The End of Food, by Paul Roberts. The book is the subject of an Ottawa Citizen article , 20 July '08, pg. B3, by Joanne Laucius.
I do think that humanity has to develop more respect for food and for farmers. The food for fuel bandwagon is an example of an idea that was pushed forward w/o thought of the consequences. Are bio-fuels really sustainable? Are they worth food riots?
I remember the photos of Soviet Union food queues....big ideas gone wrong there!

I don't want to see anyone not being able to afford nutritious food! Remember the "welfare diet" idea offered by the Harris government? Who was it that held up a can of tuna for a photo op?

Maybe farmers could offer senior discounts to fixed income folks? Any ideas on how we could work this out, ie. helping farmers make a living wage AND giving all people access to good food?
(jeez, haven't we figured this out yet?????)

[greenland]

Watch here for my new commentary postings...

http://www.web.net/~cfre/

Very encouraging site for info and for links.:)

[greenland]

Watch here for my new commentary postings...

http://www.grist.org/comments/food/2008/04/18/?source=weekly

All you need to know about mid-sized farms, which this article purports to be just what we need now.:)

[Lydia]

Very interesting new book is out called The End of Food, by Paul Roberts

Hum, I thought that was the welfare diet. lmao.

[greenland]

Watch here for my new commentary postings...

http://www.peta.org/feat_in_vitro_contest.asp?c=weekly_enews


The things that are going to be "normal" in our future world....may be disgusting to some people.:rolleyes:

[greenland]

Watch here for my new commentary postings...

http://www.helpinganimals.com/wildlife_emergencies.asp?c=weekly_enews


I've had the experience of bringing an injured bird in to the Sandy Pines Wildlife Rescue "hospital" (near Napanee). Great work is done there and great advice if you merely phone them for assistance. 613-354-0264. They accept donations as well.:)

Neighbourhood cats who are (illegally, by the way, in Kingston) allowed to roam free through private property, are the main killers/maimers of songbirds. It's become an environmental issue what with the millions of songbirds killed by well-fed pets every year. It's killing for pleasure...answering the call of instinct. BUT NOT IN MY YARD, thank you very much!:mad:

[Lydia]

Hay Greenland

I thought you would appreciate the news below about DOGMA'S LOBLAWS.


To remove the heat from chilled and frozen display fixtures, traditional grocery stores utilize a significant amount of refrigerant gas. When these refrigerants leak they cause greenhouse gas emissions. The Scarborough Superstore, through alternate design approaches, has reduced this refrigerant charge by 85%. The store is the first low temperature secondary CO2 system in Canada and the largest in North America. This will cause an estimated reduction to the store's carbon footprint of 15%.

Take that Dogma, lol lol lol. And he says Loblaws is no good. At least it is the FIRST to work for the environment. You can get more information about this chain on GlobeandMail Stock listings Look under the sybmol L-T.

Enjoy :D:D:D

[greenland]

Hay Greenland

I thought you would appreciate the news below about DOGMA'S LOBLAWS.


To remove the heat from chilled and frozen display fixtures, traditional grocery stores utilize a significant amount of refrigerant gas. When these refrigerants leak they cause greenhouse gas emissions. The Scarborough Superstore, through alternate design approaches, has reduced this refrigerant charge by 85%. The store is the first low temperature secondary CO2 system in Canada and the largest in North America. This will cause an estimated reduction to the store's carbon footprint of 15%.

Take that Dogma, lol lol lol. And he says Loblaws is no good. At least it is the FIRST to work for the environment. You can get more information about this chain on GlobeandMail Stock listings Look under the sybmol L-T.

Enjoy :D:D:D
Lydia---very COOL information. You know, I'm finding that there are SO many complaints and warnings (yes, and justified) out now about the planet tanking! The sheer volume of problems overwhelms people so let's do our part by finding out the CLEAN and GREEN actions that we each can take. If there are problems that we have the talent and energy to address then let's get on it. Even telling a friend the latest green action is a positive step. Solutions, people, solutions!

[greenland]

Watch here for my new commentary postings...

Let's be interested in Canada's environment...we in Kingston will be eventually affected by anything that happens around the country and the globe. Here's a link from Greenpeace http://www.greenpeace.org/canada/en/campaigns/tarsands/stelmach-fundraising-dinner

[Dogma]

Frankly;

Maybe in Germany, or Denmark farms are at the 2nd stage of a truely "organic method" of food farming.

Firstly; their farms are generally smaller and organised close to each other (Co-oped based), and close to their local/regional markets can be truly called a "organic production system" that is both environmentally friendly - for the supply of "organic" or naturally grown food products. Along with having a farm based industrial bio-gas plants, wind farms etc. to supply the energy and water to grow crops, for processing equipment, transportation use in production -is fundamental.

Additionally; the use of of organic additives... pesticides, irrigation techniques, etc. is also fundamental to be "organically grown".

Lately; OUR citizens must be cultured to purchase such products, i.e the extra costs associated with these products.

We in North America are far from having any "total biosphere" infastructure for our food production needs.

We are not cultured to pay for quality products, that are based on the total cost of ownership of these products.

The current distances and transport methods (i.e trucking) between "our farms & markets" that could potentially co-op on a mass scale is not efficient and doubtful to be any time soon.

We do not have the European geography or infastructure advantages, or more importatntly the cultural thinking regarding these complete "organic" bio-sphere concepts. Nor will we anytime soon.

You cannot truly call your only example i.e "Loblaws Consumers" - a truly "organically" or an enviromentally friendly source.

This is absolute nonsense!

[greenland]

http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2008/7/29/15142/0589?source=weekly

Here's some good news. :)

[greenland]

Frankly;

Maybe in Germany, or Denmark farms are at the 2nd stage of a truely "organic method" of food farming.

Firstly; their farms are generally smaller and organised close to each other (Co-oped based), and close to their local/regional markets can be truly called a "organic production system" that is both environmentally friendly - for the supply of "organic" or naturally grown food products. Along with having a farm based industrial bio-gas plants, wind farms etc. to supply the energy and water to grow crops, for processing equipment, transportation use in production -is fundamental.

Additionally; the use of of organic additives... pesticides, irrigation techniques, etc. is also fundamental to be "organically grown".

Lately; OUR citizens must be cultured to purchase such products, i.e the extra costs associated with these products.

We in North America are far from having any "total biosphere" infastructure for our food production needs.

We are not cultured to pay for quality products, that are based on the total cost of ownership of these products.

The current distances and transport methods (i.e trucking) between "our farms & markets" that could potentially co-op on a mass scale is not efficient and doubtful to be any time soon.

We do not have the European geography or infastructure advantages, or more importatntly the cultural thinking regarding these complete "organic" bio-sphere concepts. Nor will we anytime soon.

You cannot truly call your only example i.e "Loblaws Consumers" - a truly "organically" or an enviromentally friendly source.

This is absolute nonsense!
Dogma,
You seem to be quite well informed about organic farming. That can only be a good thing.

[greenland]

Watch here for my new commentary postings...

http://www.grist.org/advice/products/2008/07/29/?source=weekly

Read this and get de-bugged.

[Lydia]

I don't know Dogma, Some people from these countries and other Eurpean ones are so darn ""cultured"". Must be their food. Of course they live so close to each other that might explain why when these people have disagreements they wage WAR on each other. All that ""culture" you would think that the grudges wouldn't last for centuries.

Keep in mind "I'M UKRAINIAN" lol lol. Gee Greenland, I must be "cultured" as well. lmao. pssssssssss. Don't tell Dogma, I LOVE LOBLAWS. lol lol

[Dogma]

http://gristmill.grist.org/story/200...?source=weekly (http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2008/7/29/15142/0589?source=weekly)

Here's some good news. :)
__________________
...Greenland
(http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2008/7/29/15142/0589?source=weekly)


Denmark the world leader in Windmill production and the highest per capita user of wind power...is abandoning it major projects and $500,000,000 a year subsidy of windmill farms.

It has been proven that windmills are an unreliable source of energy.

Infact; more energy is used to produce & keep them turning than they provide into the "grid".

The problem is they do not produce energy realiably at peak times.

It depends when the wind blows adequetely enough and frequently enough to produce on demand. Power plants can gear up to satisfy peak periods, Nukes are always on, & Hydro electric is a steady source.

The best way to save power is not to use energy, or plan when it is not necessary.

Especially, peak times of the day, year.

To limit ones car usage, get rid of your dishwasher, microwave and to turn off your electronic devices..
use water barrels to collect garden water and turn off your lights!

If we all did this we would not need any windmills or coal fire plants!

[Lydia]

To limit ones car usage, get rid of your dishwasher, microwave and to turn off your electronic devices..
use water barrels to collect garden water and turn off your lights!

Lol lol lol. Soo true. And If we got rid of our tiolets, and started using out houses instead. Just think of the water we would be saving as well. Oh now just wait.

Maybe we should reconsider that one. NO JOKE. In Vancouver BC there are THREE (3) PROJECTS happening that turns HUMAN waste into BIO Fuel.

Dogma, I am NOT joking i heard that on a local news channel on the radio less than a month ago.

I personally believe that there should be many options available to us and the more the better as far as I am concerned. The reliance on Nuclear Energy, Oil and Gas Energy, should not be the ONLY source of energy we could tap.

[Dogma]

Low flush toilets, or like in Europe - a flush option for just peeing.

Bio gas for human waste? The problem is bio-gas units are just really for small electricity production, they are like windmills not efficient and expensive to build.

We only have an infastructure in N.A (North America) to handle small amounts of injected power onto our grid (110v) .

The electrical grid in N.A as you may remember during the rolling blackouts a few summers back, our grid is a one way flow type of grid. Meaning if a powerstation goes down in Michigan the whole grid goes down/ or is affected!

Not in Europe, they have a system that is de-centralized, and power can be "uploaded" or added by any power production source anywhere and power can flow both ways on the grid.

Remember we built the European grid with the Marshall plan after the war! And their grid is new and much better and more stable than ours!

In Japan they are the only ones that can make Nuclear power plant, holding tank units strong enough to retain the nuclear fusion process. Ironic that N.A dropped the boom on Japan, but now they are the ones that make the parts if a nuclear plant gets built in the world or not!

[Lydia]

Not in Europe, they have a system that is de-centralized, and power can be "uploaded" or added by any power production source anywhere and power can flow both ways on the grid.

Actually Dogma, I think this should be what we strive to create as well. It is this Centralizing crap that causes the problems we have here in Canada in the first place. I believe that every city and town should work towards getting the best source they can get to create their OWN power sources and to help neighbouring ones if they need help.

You are totally correct about the grid crap that we have at present. One major station goes down so does every community on it goes down too. WAY TOO CENTRALIZED.

Of course, this is why i say let's look at all ALL alternative sources and use them the ones that best suit us while still being connected to the centralized grid as long as we need it.

[Dogma]

Of course, this is why i say let's look at all ALL alternative sources and use them the ones that best suit us while still being connected to the centralized grid as long as we need it.


The idea is great - but unfortunately to be off the grid is next to impossible for most low, or lower middle income people.

Solar and wind is to expensive, and both in a northern climate are poor producers of power for a said home.

I can only suggest at this time:

Turn off all the power utilities you can, get ride of your dryer, use a clothes line (bylaw maybe in place in the burbs though) and get back to doing the dishes by hand!

To me having the kids earn there allowance by doing things around the house, managing the garbage/organics, hanging the laundry, even little ones can be taught to turn out the lights! Ride a bike and walk to school!

Instead of playing video games! Or being driven to and from school and other activities!

What a concept.

Look at all the money/ taxes for infastructure and appliances you will save! Along with all cost of landfill for appliances that now will not go to a 3rd world country's for decommisioning.

Man its so simple why folks get sucked into this American Dream is sad.

Its so simple. ????? :confused: Maybe to simple :confused: to say I guess.

[Lydia]

Wow, you mean go back to the OLD days. Been there Done That and I'll agree to do it again IFFFFFFFFF the guys go back to cutting wood by hand, Use a plow that the woman can steer and the man pulls throught the earth. to create a wonderful garden. The guys can use a sickle to cut grass in stead of a lawn mower. :D:D:D

Look at all the great ideas you and I have Dogma. lmao.

We could even use a string and two cans attack at each end instead of using the telephone. :D:D:D You know like we did when we were kids. lmao

However, I will miss tormenting you on here. if we did that I quit enjoy doing that lol

[Lydia]

Oh, here is one for you Greenland.

You were concerned about what to do with Doggy Poo. I have just discovered a solution.

Apparently the solution that I read lately was a Doggy tiolet placed in among the flowers in the garden or next to a tree. Instead of leaving it on the grass in the park, or throwing it into the garbage bag which goes to the landfill, you do this.

1: You buy a pail and you put several holes in the bottom of the pail. You and then paint or decorate this pail any way you wish.
2: You can also put holes on the cover of the pail so that rain water can get in the pail which delutes and helps decompose the doggy poo.

This will help fertilize your plants as well. Who know. huh. lol lol.

And here all of us just thought the proper way to dispose of doggy poo was to pick it up so that people don't walk into it and place that crap into a garbage pail so that the gases wouldn't be spread all over the community.

You learn something new all the time

I hear you people laughing at this. Don't laugh apparently this issues is one which people DO take seriously.

[Dogma]

Wow, you mean go back to the OLD days. Been there Done That and I'll agree to do it again IFFFFFFFFF the guys go back to cutting wood by hand, Use a plow that the woman can steer and the man pulls throught the earth. to create a wonderful garden. The guys can use a sickle to cut grass in stead of a lawn mower.


I do cut wood by hand. Many do.

Organic, or small farm production does use conventional methods of plowing, such as the menonites traditional methods of food production.

They are probaby a leader in "natural" farming, and local market distribution methods.

Alot of people want and do use "push type" lawn mowers, that need no gas or electric power. Why don't you?

Seed your grass with clover, or remove the lawn and make low maintanence gardens areas. Use water barrels to collect run off, use backing soda and vineger to clean your house!

Yes, Lydia - people do use simple, low impact methods. Why have you not?

Maybe start by getting rid of your dryer and start actually contributing to the neighbourhood by example? I'm sure you would!

The "modern" way has certainly proven NOT to the best way for sustainable environmental methods. Maybe its time one embrassed some simple changes...:confused:

[Lydia]

The "modern" way has certainly proven NOT to the best way for sustainable environmental methods. Maybe its time one embrassed some simple changes...

You are correct but has proven to be the easy way. Of course the easy way has never been done in places like Russia. Might explain WHY even today most men there DON'T live well into their 90s. (Might make it to their 50s). Also might explain why many of them have problems with Alcohol and have problems with abusing their families. (That is true even in TODAY'S culture).

It also might explain WHY YOU are grumpy as well. Cutting all that wood by hand and using a PUSH MOWER. lmao

[Dogma]

Russian men do not "live as long" is simply because of socio-economic reasons.

It has nothing to do with modern convienances!

There is no work, no decent housing in many Russians lives - thus no hope.

Add vodca to the mix at pennies a bottle - you get these health problems.


It is healthy to cut wood, as well as satisfying, so is push mowers, and drying your clothes on a line.

If one is so environmentally concerned these are the "basics", that one should be doing.

What is so hard to understand? :) Just DO IT! - no charge!

[Lydia]

Just DO IT!Just DO IT!Just DO IT! lOOK the Birds and the Bees do it. At my age, Im luck i can MOVE let alone DO It. lol lol. No cutting woods, killing chickens, using my sickle etc . Yea right Just DO IT! lmao

This is one reason I also won't call myself an Environmentist. Im too lazy for that. Thank you. However, there are people like YOU and friends of mine who are so I will just sit back on my porch and WATCH YOU GUYS DO IT. lmao.

[greenland]

http://www.quinte.on.ca/farmersmarket/id7.htm

Check this link for local emu meat. See the following from the site:


FACTS ON EMU MEAT

Emu is Ontario’s newest red meat. All birds at Naylor Emu Farm are raised on a wholesome grain-based ration, producing a tender, juicy flavourful meat. All the meat is hormone and drug free as well as professionally processed at a government inspected facility.

Emu is low in fat and cholesterol, but high in iron and protein. Emu can be lightly barbecued or pan- fried resulting in tender, tasty meat. However, as emu is so low in fat,care must be taken to not overcook it.

Emu meat is made into many delicious products. Choice cuts of Emu fillets, kobossa, sausages (honey garlic, octoberfest), ground emu, patties, and meat pies.

:):)

[greenland]

Lydia - I said (for Greenland) to have "a balanced sense of environmental issues" and KNOWLEDGE - not Kingston or anyone else.

Loblaws Greed-land?- you must be kidding! That's one of the WORST corporate companies for retail, food processing in the country!

Try Tara Foods. That's a no brainer....and have been providing "locally" grown, made products for years!

Sorry but, if your so knowledgeable about "environmental responsibility" I am surprised you would even consider Loblaws...first!

- YIKES. You are starting to scare me now....:eek:

What other suggests - does your experience think is environmentally responsible? :confused:
Being balanced in anything is hard work. Looking at where food comes from, what kind of land it's grown in,how it's transported from the grower, how much fuel is used to get that item to the retailer, how clean are the hands of the retailer's employees, how clean is the shelf the food is on, how many germs float around the store that land on the food item, how clean the customer is getting the food from the store to his/her fridge....on and on. Not to mention the cost to the consumer.This is why I advocate doing ANYthing one can one step at a time. Read and think about food and its production.

[Dogma]

I think you have a "clean" fetish or something...what the heck does that to do with "organic" or naturally grown produce and its fundemental process???

I have no idea of what your clean thing is and what it has to do with "a truly" organic product - and your example is Loblaws? Are you trying to fool us into thinking you know what you are talking about? Are you really a flake?
...you seem not the expert we expected? You certainly seem pretty "green" about htis topic thats foresure.

Maybe you should travel a little more and take note of other examples in the world - not just little old Kingston - that knows little about the world other than itself as a retirement home for old porch sitters like Lydia and her band of knitting ninnies although beauties in their own right.

[Lydia]

Watch it Dogma, My band of knitting ninnes will put a needle up your backside if you don't watch it. lmao. My neighbours don't like being called that. Althought We are beauties lmao.

Thats okay, at least I like NEEDLING you. lol

p.s. Don't be so sure you have Greenland figured out here. Greenland happens to be very educated, dedicated and informative in environmental issues. Her social environment happens to be very involved with the community, province and globe issues. Greenland isn't just a Kingstonian who happens to be clean. Too bad more businesses around here are not as clean as she is. Infact Answer this one Dogma. Why are the restaurants around here classifiend as they are in Toronto as to which met Government standards on being clean. I would think that if a restaurant is clean and careful about handling food they would WANT to be recognized as great.

[greenland]

I think you have a "clean" fetish or something...what the heck does that to do with "organic" or naturally grown produce and its fundemental process???

I have no idea of what your clean thing is and what it has to do with "a truly" organic product - and your example is Loblaws? Are you trying to fool us into thinking you know what you are talking about? Are you really a flake?
...you seem not the expert we expected? You certainly seem pretty "green" about htis topic thats foresure.

Maybe you should travel a little more and take note of other examples in the world - not just little old Kingston - that knows little about the world other than itself as a retirement home for old porch sitters like Lydia and her band of knitting ninnies although beauties in their own right.
Dogma,
Why are you wasting your time crabbing about me and my seeming lack of sophistication?
I am trying to encourage people to share their steps and their information that will guide us toward making greener choices in any area of day-to-day life. If scientific analysis is what you are looking for you've come to the wrong forum.
Being part of the solution doesn't have to be complicated. You are stuck with being part of the problem. Besides that, you should brush up on your spelling.

[greenland]

Watch here for my new commentary postings...

http://www.loblaws.ca/en/natural_products.aspx


FYI. If you have a comment to make about this company, send one in.

[greenland]

Lydia - I said (for Greenland) to have "a balanced sense of environmental issues" and KNOWLEDGE - not Kingston or anyone else.

Loblaws Greed-land?- you must be kidding! That's one of the WORST corporate companies for retail, food processing in the country!

Try Tara Foods. That's a no brainer....and have been providing "locally" grown, made products for years!

Sorry but, if your so knowledgeable about "environmental responsibility" I am surprised you would even consider Loblaws...first!

- YIKES. You are starting to scare me now....:eek:

What other suggests - does your experience think is environmentally responsible? :confused:
http://www.loeb.ca/about.en.html

Send your comments about food sources/organic selection in to Loeb's while you still can.

[greenland]

http://www.loeb.ca/about.en.html

Send your comments about food sources/organic selection in to Loeb's while you still can.
Dogma,
I really like the co-op store idea. I used to shop at one in another city where I lived. The supermarket chains have obvious pluses.
The entire nation would have to change eating, shopping habits and that's not going to happen across the board w/o a disaster of some kind. So...right now it's down to us little people (and yes, you are probably a little person too) to make the changes we need to make in our personal shopping lives. Shop for the cleanest food, and prepare it in a healthy way.

[Lydia]

Wow, Dogma, Now you can really get even with that chain. Greenland has now given you the exact link to contact them. http://www.loblaws.ca/en/natural_products.aspx

Oh yes, please tell the rest of us what they said to you. It would be very interesting. I CAN WAIT to hear their reply. :D:D:D

Too Late no more Loebs, or A&P. However, you could contact Metro lol lol

[Dogma]

I don't shop at Loblaws to really afford their food, or "organics", which I hope you can understand now...is not organically grown, sutainable or environmentally friend product. I recommend you not support them going forward.

I would suggest anyone who is buying such "products" on a regular bases such as yourself - would be the ones that would fill out any complaint process, either online or to the instore managers - asap.

For me I will buy from local farmers markets, Tara Foods and maybe no frills for the basics.

Their selection may not be like "Yuppie Loblaws", you seem to recommend, I can only assume you likely will continue to support them.

There is my advice - do not follow "green-lands" advice, do not support Loblaws "organic products". :p

[Lydia]

DOGMA, Shame on you, NO FRILLS.

"Tara Foods and maybe no frills for the basics. "

Oh my, you only have Tara left. NO FRILLS is owned and operated by GUESS WHO LOBLAWS. It is their sister store. Guess what.

They get their supplies from the EXACT SAME PROVIDERS.


(Oh by the way, I will continue going to Loblaws and also No Frills. I like both.) lol lol.

Oh yes on the organic side of the BEEF. Whole Foods has just released a statement that they are taking back ground beef that anyone buy since July.

Goes to show you that just because it is organic does not mean it is always the best. They have their own problems as well as the ordinary beef.

[greenland]

In the St.Lawrence College Continuing Education Guide for Fall 2008 there are a few courses for the environmentally conscious.
The Real Cost of Food: Wed., Sept. 10-Nov. 12, 6:30 to 9:30 pm

Saving Heirloom Seeds, Sept. 23 + 30, 6:30 - 8:30 pm

Rain Water Management and Vegetable Garden Irrigation, Nov. 18, 6:30-9 pm

Canning Your Harvest, Sept. 10-24, 6:30-9 pm

[greenland]

Jamie Swift comes down hard on the "monster boat rally". Good arguments. :)
After the initial amazement with the size and design of these boatsn wears off, the reality has got to sink in that this kind of display of noise and power has seen its day. It's over.

[greenland]

Dogma, Tara Foods actually have been involved with the Supermarket Chains. They have been sending their foods to Chains like Oshawa Foods for years. (at Least the ones in Toronto have been)

Dogma, Loblaws is GREAT, friendly, and at least willing to bring in Canadian Foods and market them accordingly. Also they have tried to be informative about Heart Smart Foods.

Shame on you for picking on Loblaws and I DIDN'T EVEN WORK FOR THEM. lmao

Okay Oh Great One, Tell us about which companies OTHER THAN TARA that you think would sell locally owned foods in their stores. (Okay you are NOT the Great one,)

Dogma, you know I'm pulling your chain here. lol lol.
Lydia,
At this point (near the planet's tipping point!) I don't care WHICH retailer offers organic/natural foods and supplies. If they carry it I'll buy it. (Always looking for the Canadian-made first of course).People have started to purchase better products and the companies are offering more of it. I see more items in stores all the time....Shoppers has organic personal products. Loblaws Health Food section carries all kinds of organic and natural products. More than Loeb's carries....and No Frills has very few.
I agree with you that the cost of these things can be high. The Method brand of organic dish soap and other items is priced ok, though.

[Lydia]

Don't get me wrong here Greenland. I am fully in favour of green products and the reason I am stick on Loblaws is because they were the first in THIS city that have changed their ways toward better products. Now we need to put the pressure on them to buy Canadian products and advertising them as such. I personally would love to see a corner of the stores for Canadian products only. Just like they did the Wellness section and the Pharmacy.

I am a heart patient and good nutricial foods is very important to people with those problems as well as Cancer patients.

I just want people to stop jumping on one band-wagon or another without FULLY understanding what they are doing.

[Dogma]

I just want people to stop jumping on one band-wagon or another without FULLY understanding what they are doing.

At this point (near the planet's tipping point!)

....and No Frills has very few

Jamie Swift comes down hard on the "monster boat rally". Good arguments.



I agree Lydia - this "sudden save the world - instant fix mentallity" and - "being one" with organic, or natural products
seems rather niave, and obviously trendy. As in Loblaws case. Only people that can pay higher for the stuff there shop there. How does that add to the worlds state - more organic have nots? I believe its mostly marketing to increase revenues for the Loblaws of the world.

i.e I only by "mineral water" at No Frills, it is regional water - not the mineral water from France, you Yuppies buy..

Again, Loblaws, Loeb or any "large chain store" - are not a source for organic products until it is locally made, transported and packaged & environmentally friendly.

I see little of this.

Most products come from U.S Mexico, India & Germany. That land on the shelves of Loblaws, or any chain store... Thats a long way to travel - (which you both seem to be able to support).

The "tipping point" relates more to (Global Warming) because of carbon released from decades of coal fire / power plants around the world - not remotely linked significantly to food production.

To reduce this carbo, and energy use - first step is to use less power period!

Jamie Swift - is a militant, & local writer that makes most of his points with lack of any research or real grasp of the topic at hand. Its easy pickings to say large boats use gas - thus only the rich can afford to pay for such "playful luxury", and only the few.

Not to say the "era" of large boats, cars and houses are not exactly fading fast. Homes are larger than they ever have been.

But, I was surprised that his "opinion" was not as inclusive, to suggest electric or Hydrogen powered vehicles could be an alternative. Such as all other vehicles - that seem to get the green stamp! Hmm why could not boats be "greenish"..

Jamie "focuses" -> "cigarette boats" means = the illegal cigarettes transport device (or boat used)

Infact; "cigar-ette boats" comes from the "design" of boats - and its particular shape!

Lydia and I would know...the wooden cigar -shaped boats of the 30's that transported people, and supplies , to cottages in MUskoka in particular - and became somewhat of a collector boats for its workmannship & "cedar made" boat qualities / enthusiists - like canoes. This is where the name comes from...maybe a little bit of research would help?

And Jamie by the way the correct name for these types of boats = "power boats".

[greenland]

Watch here for my new commentary postings...
ONTARIO APPROVES NEW DIVERSION PLAN FOR MUNICIPAL HAZARDOUS OR SPECIAL WASTE
More Recycling Options For Ontarians, A Cleaner Environment

TORONTO– Environment Minister John Gerretsen has approved a new program that aims to double the amount of household hazardous or special waste that Ontario diverts from landfills and the environment over the next five years.
The program, developed by Waste Diversion Ontario, will help Ontarians reduce, reuse, recycle and responsibly dispose of common household products such as paints, solvents, batteries and oil filters that can often end up being poured down the drain or thrown out with regular garbage.
“We’re moving aggressively to step up diversion efforts in Ontario over the next couple of years,” said Gerretsen. “This new program ensures we can each do the right thing for the environment when it comes to dealing with these wastes.”
Phase One of the program will begin on July 1, and includes paints and stains, paint thinners, strippers and other solvents, oil filters, lubricating oil containers, non-rechargeable batteries, engine coolant, pressurized containers such as propane tanks, fertilizers and pesticides.
The program will make it easier and more convenient for consumers to return these wastes for proper management. For rural and northern Ontarians where service often does not currently exist, this will mean the introduction of new collection events. For urban Ontarians with some level of existing service, this will mean extending depot hours and increasing the number of collection events.
Gemma Zecchini, chair of Waste Diversion Ontario’s board of directors, congratulated the government for approving the program. “Now that the program has been approved, we can set the wheels in motion to expand the opportunities for Ontarians to recycle and dispose of these products and their containers responsibly.”
Jim Quick, president of the Canadian Paint & Coatings Association, and chair of the Stewardship Ontario committee that developed the program for Waste Diversion Ontario commented that “this new program means more opportunities to divert many of the products we’ve had around our houses and used for years that shouldn’t go into the garbage.
“Lots of products like unused paint can be recycled,” said Quick. “Other products, like pesticides, which can’t be recycled, will be disposed of responsibly. This is a great opportunity for Ontarians to build on the success of the Blue Box program to divert more waste from landfill.”
Doug Reycraft, president of the Association of Municipalities of Ontario also praised the program. “Improved diversion methods and added opportunities for collection means landfill sites will be spared more tonnes of waste. We applaud industry in taking on a greater stewardship responsibility that will help communities in their pursuit of a cleaner environment and sustainability.”
Phase Two of the plan will soon be under development, and will include portable fire extinguishers, fluorescent lights, rechargeable batteries, pharmaceuticals, syringes and thermostats and other measuring devices containing mercury.
To view Phase One of the plan, go to www.stewardshipontario.ca (http://www.stewardshipontario.ca/) and click on the icon for MHSW.



```````````````````````````````
We all need to be reminded. Kingston's organic waste plan being postponed for more community education (for one reason) is a good idea. I hope it's handled like the Emergency Disaster Plan.... I haven't collected all the items yet, but I'm aware of what is needed for the Grab and Go Bag. Procrastination, get thee behind me!

[greenland]

I agree Lydia - this "sudden save the world - instant fix mentallity" and - "being one" with organic, or natural products
seems rather niave, and obviously trendy. As in Loblaws case. Only people that can pay higher for the stuff there shop there. How does that add to the worlds state - more organic have nots? I believe its mostly marketing to increase revenues for the Loblaws of the world.

i.e I only by "mineral water" at No Frills, it is regional water - not the mineral water from France, you Yuppies buy..

Again, Loblaws, Loeb or any "large chain store" - are not a source for organic products until it is locally made, transported and packaged & environmentally friendly.

I see little of this.

Most products come from U.S Mexico, India & Germany. That land on the shelves of Loblaws, or any chain store... Thats a long way to travel - (which you both seem to be able to support).

The "tipping point" relates more to (Global Warming) because of carbon released from decades of coal fire / power plants around the world - not remotely linked significantly to food production.

To reduce this carbo, and energy use - first step is to use less power period!

Jamie Swift - is a militant, & local writer that makes most of his points with lack of any research or real grasp of the topic at hand. Its easy pickings to say large boats use gas - thus only the rich can afford to pay for such "playful luxury", and only the few.

Not to say the "era" of large boats, cars and houses are not exactly fading fast. Homes are larger than they ever have been.

But, I was surprised that his "opinion" was not as inclusive, to suggest electric or Hydrogen powered vehicles could be an alternative. Such as all other vehicles - that seem to get the green stamp! Hmm why could not boats be "greenish"..

Jamie "focuses" -> "cigarette boats" means = the illegal cigarettes transport device (or boat used)

Infact; "cigar-ette boats" comes from the "design" of boats - and its particular shape!

Lydia and I would know...the wooden cigar -shaped boats of the 30's that transported people, and supplies , to cottages in MUskoka in particular - and became somewhat of a collector boats for its workmannship & "cedar made" boat qualities / enthusiists - like canoes. This is where the name comes from...maybe a little bit of research would help?

And Jamie by the way the correct name for these types of boats = "power boats".
Dogma, your sense of humour is finally showing. You look much better without the bitter. "Greenish boats"...lol.

[greenland]

Tara Foods -

Greed-land - have you ever shopped there "regularly"?

If not your a "environmental" traitor.

Other "local" retailers - thats to easy!

Farmers Markets - they are in most populated areas, even Verona!

"Organic foods" etc.

That is B.S - when did (you types) suddenly decide to "buy into" the (slogan "Organic")?

To me and my parents generation - they are just local fruits and vegetables.

Marketed as: natural, organic or local "pure" products.

It is just marketers have brainwashed you and my "naturally" diplomatic & pretty Lydia - into thinking what we buy from most farms are "naturally" grown.

And that is nonsense.

Most "food" (with the general except of processed type foods) have and always (come from "Nature").

Just because some farms are spraying for aestetic reasons is BAD - does not mean they are not as "natural" - as the stuff you buy that is not sprayed - i.e many "naturally" farmed foods, get contaminated because they do not have any period of resistence to disease or storage life. Some are "radiated" for this reason...but generally these methods (Not DDT- ofcourse ) help us eat healthier foods for the masses. Remeber people - think outside the box here..most people in this world DO NOT have enough food to live on!

- Organics - are Not just for the few who can afford the "organic" trendy marquee.

"organically locally grown" you say. And charge double accordingly!

Frankly; there are many "natural" or organic "products" - I find taste like crap.

Again - you both need to really think about what is truely "organic" and what is healthy and best for all.
````````````````````````````````````````````````


Dogma,
Here's what Wikipedia has to teach us all about the history of organic farming:
Pre-World War II

The first 40 years of the 20th century saw simultaneous advances in biochemistry and engineering that rapidly and profoundly changed farming. The introduction of the gasoline-powered internal combustion engine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_combustion_engine) ushered in the era of the tractor, and made possible hundreds of mechanized farm implements. Research in plant breeding (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plant_breeding) led to the commercialization of hybrid seed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_seed). And a new manufacturing process made nitrogen fertilizer - first synthesized in the mid-1800s[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)] - affordably abundant. These factors changed the labor equation: there were some 600 tractors in the US around 1910[citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)], and over 3,000,000 by 1950; in 1900, it took one farmer to feed 2.5 people, where currently the ratio is 1 to well over 100. Fields grew bigger and cropping more specialized to make more efficient use of machinery.
In Japan in the 1920s, a woman named Rebecca Kidd began to speak out against these agricultural trends.
Consciously organic agriculture (as opposed to the agriculture of indigenous cultures, which always employs only organic means) began more or less simultaneously in Central Europe and India. The British botanist Sir Albert Howard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sir_Albert_Howard) is often referred to as the father of modern organic agriculture. From 1905 to 1924, he worked as an agricultural adviser in Pusa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pusa), Bengal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengal), where he documented traditional Indian farming practices, and came to regard them as superior to his conventional agriculture science. His research and further development of these methods is recorded in his writings, notably, his 1940 book, An Agricultural Testament (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Agricultural_Testament), which influenced many scientists and farmers of the day.
In Germany, Rudolf Steiner (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolf_Steiner)'s development, biodynamic agriculture (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biodynamic_agriculture), was probably the first comprehensive organic farming system. This began with a lecture series Steiner presented at a farm in Koberwitz (now in Poland) in 1924. Steiner emphasized on the farmer's role in guiding and balancing the interaction of the animals, plants and soil. Healthy animals depended upon healthy plants (for their food), healthy plants upon healthy soil, healthy soil upon healthy animals (for the manure).
In 1909, American agronomist F.H. King (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F.H._King) toured China, Korea, and Japan, studying traditional fertilization, tillage, and general farming practices[1] (http://orgprints.org/10237). He published his findings in Permanent Agriculture: Farmers of Forty Centuries (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Permanent_Agriculture:_Farmers_of_ Forty_Centuries&action=edit&redlink=1) (1911, Courier Dover Publications, ISBN 0-486-43609-8 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:BookSources/0486436098)). King foresaw a "world movement for the introduction of new and improved methods"[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_organic_farming#cite_note-0) of agriculture and in later years his book became an important organic reference.
The term organic farming was coined by Lord Northbourne (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_James%2C_4th_Baron_Northbourne), in his book, Look to the Land (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Look_to_the_Land&action=edit&redlink=1) (written in 1939, published 1940), from his conception of "the farm as organism"[2] (http://orgprints.org/10138), he described a holistic, ecologically-balanced approach to farming.
In 1939, influenced by Sir Albert Howard's work, Lady Eve Balfour (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Eve_Balfour) launched the Haughley Experiment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haughley_Experiment) on farmland in England. It was the first scientific, side-by-side comparison of organic and conventional farming. Four years later, she published The Living Soil (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Living_Soil), based on the initial findings of the Haughley Experiment. Widely read, it led to the formation of a key international organic advocacy group, the Soil Association (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soil_Association).
In Japan, Masanobu Fukuoka (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masanobu_Fukuoka), a microbiologist working in soil science (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soil_science) and plant pathology, began to doubt the modern agricultural movement. In the early 1940s, he quit his job as a research scientist, returned to his family's farm, and devoted the next 30 years to developing a radical no-till organic method for growing grain, now known as Fukuoka farming (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fukuoka_farming).

[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=History_of_organic_farming&action=edit&section=2)] Post-World War II

Technological advances during World War II (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II) accelerated post-war innovation in all aspects of agriculture, resulting in large advances in mechanization (including large-scale irrigation), fertilization, and pesticides. In particular, two chemicals that had been produced in quantity for warfare, were repurposed to peace-time agricultural uses. Ammonium nitrate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammonium_nitrate), used in munitions, became an abundantly ***** source of nitrogen. And a range of new pesticides appeared: DDT (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DDT), which had been used to control disease-carrying insects around troops, became a general insecticide, launching the era of widespread pesticide (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pesticide) use.
At the same time, increasingly powerful and sophisticated farm machinery allowed a single farmer to work over larger areas of land and fields grew bigger.
In 1944, an international campaign called the Green Revolution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Revolution) was launched in Mexico with private funding from the US. It encouraged the development of hybrid plants, chemical controls, large-scale irrigation, and heavy mechanization in agriculture around the world.
During the 1950s, sustainable agriculture was a topic of scientific interest, but research tended to concentrate on developing the new chemical approaches. In the US, J.I. Rodale (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerome_Irving_Rodale) began to popularize the term and methods of organic growing, particularly to consumers through promotion of organic gardening (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organic_gardening).
In 1962, Rachel Carson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rachel_Carson), a prominent scientist and naturalist, published Silent Spring (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silent_Spring), chronicling the effects of DDT and other pesticides on the environment[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_organic_farming#cite_note-1) . A bestseller in many countries, including the US, and widely read around the world, Silent Spring is widely considered as being a key factor in the US government's 1972 banning of DDT. The book and its author are often credited with launching the worldwide environmental movement (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_movement).
In the 1970s, global movements concerned with pollution and the environment increased their focus on organic farming. As the distinction between organic and conventional food became clearer, one goal of the organic movement (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organic_movement) was to encourage consumption of locally grown food (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_food), which was promoted through slogans like "Know Your Farmer, Know Your Food".
In 1972, the International Federation of Organic Agriculture Movements, widely known as IFOAM, was founded in Versailles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Versailles), France, and dedicated to the diffusion and exchange of information on the principles and practices of organic agriculture of all schools and across national and linguistic boundaries.
In 1975, Fukuoka released his first book, One Straw Revolution (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=One_Straw_Revolution&action=edit&redlink=1), with a strong impact in certain areas of the agricultural world. His approach to small-scale grain production emphasized a meticulous balance of the local farming ecosystem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecosystem), and a minimum of human interference and labor.
In the 1980s, around the world, various farming and consumer groups began seriously pressuring for government regulation of organic production. This led to legislation and certification standards being enacted through the 1990s and to date.
Since the early 1990s, the retail market for organic farming in developed economies has been growing by about 20% annually due to increasing consumer demand. Concern for the quality and safety of food, and the potential for environmental damage from conventional agriculture, are apparently responsible for this trend.

[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=History_of_organic_farming&action=edit&section=3)] 21st Century

Throughout this history, the focus of agricultural research, and the majority of publicized scientific findings, has been on chemical, not organic farming. This emphasis has continued to biotechnologies like genetic engineering. One recent survey of the UK's leading government funding agency for bioscience research and training indicated 26 GM crop projects, and only one related to organic agriculture.[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_organic_farming#endnote_www.bbsrc.ac.uk .168) This imbalance is largely driven by agribusiness in general, which, through research funding (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Research_funding) and government lobbying, continues to have a predominating effect on agriculture-related science and policy.
Agribusiness is also changing the rules of the organic market. The rise of organic farming was driven by small, independent producers, and by consumers. In recent years, explosive organic market growth has encouraged the participation of agribusiness interests. As the volume and variety of "organic" products increases, the viability of the small-scale organic farm is at risk, and the meaning of organic farming as an agricultural method is ever more easily confused with the related but separate areas of organic food and organic certification.
In Havana (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Havana), Cuba (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuba), a unique situation has made organic food production a necessity. Since the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1989 and its economic support, Cuba has had to produce food in creative ways like instituting the world’s only state-supported infrastructure to support urban food production. Called organopónicos (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organop%C3%B3nicos), the city is able to provide an ever increasing amount of its produce organically.

[edit (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=History_of_organic_farming&action=edit&section=4)] References

[greenland]

The ground has loads of "natural" radiation, what you are going to completely "smother" your children with protection.

Give me a break - enough is enough just let them grow up first so they can teach you...a few things about "natural organic" foods.

Obviously; you missed the bushel on this one!
Dogma,
Yes there are "hazards" everywhere, even reading your posts. Choosing to live as cleanly as humanly possible....let's just try not to add to the chemical burden. Keep remembering the blood tests many Canadians took last year to assess the load of chemicals flowing through their veins. ....choose to reduce exposure....to live a healthier and longer life. It comes down to choosing your poison, doesn't it? HOPING organic food is healthier is flaky??

[Lydia]

You look much better without the bitter. "Greenish boats"...lol.


Look here Greenland stop picking on Dogma that way. I MUCH PREFER the "Bitter Greenish boat" look.

Don't let him know that he is showing his other side where he seams to be actually agreeing with us. ever so slowly.

I told you Dogma is lots of fun despite his grumpy bitter greenish look. :D:D

[greenland]

Why don't we have other people writing into this forum? Where is everyone?:confused:

[greenland]

Frankly;




Lately; OUR citizens must be cultured to purchase such products, i.e the extra costs associated with these products.

We in North America are far from having any "total biosphere" infastructure for our food production needs.

We are not cultured to pay for quality products, that are based on the total cost of ownership of these products.


We do not have the European geography or infastructure advantages, or more importatntly the cultural thinking regarding these complete "organic" bio-sphere concepts. Nor will we anytime soon.

You cannot truly call your only example i.e "Loblaws Consumers" - a truly "organically" or an enviromentally friendly source.

This is absolute nonsense!

```````````````````````````

Do you think Canadians can start to move towards a finer culture re: food or are people already tuning out the green warnings and green advice columns that, actually, are everywhere now? I'm feeling hopeful, but flaky people tend to be that way.

Loblaws was just a handy example. Yes I shop at Tara, Produce Town, the Farmers' Market, and anywhere else I happen to be. I'm not a green snob,you know.
See the below from this website: http://ec.europa.eu/agriculture/organic/organic-farming/what-organic_en

`````````````````````````````````````
What is organic farming?

http://ec.europa.eu/agriculture/organic/wsimages/organicfarming1.1.jpgPut simply, organic farming is an agricultural system that seeks to provide you, the consumer, with fresh, tasty and authentic food while respecting natural life-cycle systems.
http://ec.europa.eu/agriculture/organic/wsimages/icon_printpage.gif (http://ec.europa.eu/agriculture/organic/printFriendly.cfm?objectid=3F7B788C-C766-2B6C-894B60B06F60E11A)http://ec.europa.eu/agriculture/organic/wsimages/icon_to_top.gif (http://ec.europa.eu/agriculture/organic/organic-farming/what-organic_en#top)
Principles

To achieve this, organic farming relies on a number of objectives and principles, as well as common practices designed to minimise the human impact on the environment, while ensuring the agricultural system operates as naturally as possible.
Typical organic farming practices include:


Wide crop rotation as a prerequisite for an efficient use of on-site resources
Very strict limits on chemical synthetic pesticide and synthetic fertiliser use, livestock antibiotics, food additives and processing aids and other inputs
Absolute prohibition of the use of genetically modified organisms
Taking advantage of on-site resources, such as livestock manure for fertiliser or feed produced on the farm
Choosing plant and animal species that are resistant to disease and adapted to local conditions
Raising livestock in free-range, open-air systems and providing them with organic feed
Using animal husbandry practices appropriate to different livestock species


http://ec.europa.eu/agriculture/organic/wsimages/icon_printpage.gif (http://ec.europa.eu/agriculture/organic/printFriendly.cfm?objectid=3F7B788C-C766-2B6C-894B60B06F60E11A)http://ec.europa.eu/agriculture/organic/wsimages/icon_to_top.gif (http://ec.europa.eu/agriculture/organic/organic-farming/what-organic_en#top)

Logo and labelling

The current EU organic Regulation sets out how crops and livestock must be managed, and how food and livestock feed must be processed, in order to be labelled as organic. Compliance with the EU organic Regulation is also required for all products carrying the EU organic farming logo (http://ec.europa.eu/agriculture/organic/consumer-confidence/logo-labelling_en). It is also mandatory for the name or code C741 of the inspection body that inspects and certifies the organic operators to accompany this labelling.
This labelling regime is designed to give you and other consumers in EU Member States confidence about the organic nature of the products you buy. The EU logo is designed to increase recognition of organic products among consumers and works in a similar way to other national logos you might see on produce in your own country. It is not currently mandatory for products produced under the current EU organic Regulation to carry the logo, but it will be when the new Regulation (http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2007:189:0001:0023:EN:PDF) will apply.
http://ec.europa.eu/agriculture/organic/wsimages/icon_printpage.gif (http://ec.europa.eu/agriculture/organic/printFriendly.cfm?objectid=3F7B788C-C766-2B6C-894B60B06F60E11A)http://ec.europa.eu/agriculture/organic/wsimages/icon_to_top.gif (http://ec.europa.eu/organic-farming/what-organic_en#top)

[Dogma]

Dogma,
Yes there are "hazards" everywhere, even reading your posts. Choosing to live as cleanly as humanly possible....let's just try not to add to the chemical burden. Keep remembering the blood tests many Canadians took last year to assess the load of chemicals flowing through their veins. ....choose to reduce exposure....to live a healthier and longer life. It comes down to choosing your poison, doesn't it? HOPING organic food is healthier is flaky??

Green-land - I think you have lost your mind. But, the pretties ones usually don't know it.

Referencing that "W-5" "show" with Wendy getting her blood tested...as the absolute truth is rather niave. Although I love the show!

- Remember she had breast cancer and maybe a bit "bias" when it comes to make a link- or "making a show out of it".

Infact; 1000 years ago people only lived until 25 years old. Their children were grown up at 12! Your trying to tell me you want us to live even longer now...using "natural means"? Are you nuts, we should be stopping the growth of populations, and the land required to sustain us. That is the main problem.

And please stop this fake suburban Loblaws "organic movement". I can see them now, filling up their minivans with tofu dogs from Chile.

[greenland]

http://www.popsci.com/scitech/article/2007-03/prophet-garbage

It just requires a lot of electricity.

[greenland]

Green-land - I think you have lost your mind. But, the pretties ones usually don't know it.

Referencing that "W-5" "show" with Wendy getting her blood tested...as the absolute truth is rather niave. Although I love the show!

- Remember she had breast cancer and maybe a bit "bias" when it comes to make a link- or "making a show out of it".

Infact; 1000 years ago people only lived until 25 years old. Their children were grown up at 12! Your trying to tell me you want us to live even longer now...using "natural means"? Are you nuts, we should be stopping the growth of populations, and the land required to sustain us. That is the main problem.

And please stop this fake suburban Loblaws "organic movement". I can see them now, filling up their minivans with tofu dogs from Chile.
Dogma,
Local organic is a better choice absolutely,and everyone will begin to see it, even the downtown yuppies, like yourself. Watch out, your elitism is showing.

[Dogma]

Farmers hit with growing pains

Small-scale operations cope with big demands from large-scale distributors

Posted By STEVE SZKOTAK, THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

Posted 1 day ago


At the wholesale produce market in this Mennonite community, farming families arrive by horse and buggy and pallets are stacked high with freshly harvested Shenandoah Valley onions, corn, green peppers and squash.

The setting evokes a simpler, preindustrial era.

In reality, small-scale farmers are experiencing growing pains as they adapt to the country's expanding diet for locally grown foods and the exacting demands of high-volume distributors of their produce.

Companies such as Sysco Corp., Whole Foods Market Inc. and Wal-Mart Stores Inc. want guaranteed volumes, set prices for an entire season and the ability to trace produce back to its source in the event of a food-related health scare, among other things.

However, such standards and other formal trappings of the business world - contracts, attorneys, technology - often conflict with the ethics, and practical considerations, of small-scale farmers, especially those who are deeply religious.

"They feel they are producing something as safe and secure as their relationship with the Lord," said David Watson of the Association of Family Farms.

Moreover, growers in temperate climates don't have a 12-month supply of produce. "Trying to match what the buyers need with what's being planted" is one of the biggest challenges, said Richard Rohrer, a Mennonite farmer and manager of the Shenandoah Valley Produce Auction.

When one large buyer recently demanded insurance - which is needed in case a fruit or vegetable makes someone ill - the Dayton farmers balked.

"We deal more on the handshake, personal commitment - look the grower in the eye," said farmer Vernon Hoover, the Dayton auction's independent buyer.

Still, Amish and Mennonite and even non-religious small-scale growers in Virginia, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Iowa, Tennessee, New York and other states are mindful of the money to be made from this emerging relationship with big distributors. And they are willing to engage in some horse trading to create business relationships.

For example, they want industry demands such as specialty boxes and company labels to be factored into their price, according to Rich Pirog, associate director of the Leopold Center for Sustainable Agriculture at Iowa State University.

And while wholesale markets, or auctions, benefit the food industry by bringing together larger numbers of growers in one location, they also make it easier for smaller growers to make connections to representatives of big companies and their resources, including refrigerated trucks and bar-code labels.


"If you have a quality product, consistently packaged, don't top dress by taking the worst and putting it on the bottom - all that is the way you build your name here at the auction," Charlie Martin, the Dayton auction's board chairman, said. He proudly stood before a large stack of unblemished yellow and green squash that his 16-year-old daughter picked that morning, wearing surgical gloves to avoid marring their flesh.

The demand for what small-scale farmers have to offer is burgeoning:
* Wal-Mart last month said it would sell $400 million worth of locally grown produce this year, making it the largest player in that market. Its suppliers include "many Amish and Mennonite growers" who work through third-party suppliers, spokeswoman Deisha Galberth said.

* Chipotle Mexican Grill Inc. in June pledged to purchase 25 per cent of at least one produce item for each of its stores from small-and mid-sized farms located within 320 kilometres.

* Whole Foods Market purchased 22 per cent of its produce locally last year, up from the previous year's 19 per cent.

By any measure, though, the 50-plus Amish and Mennonite produce auctions in the U. S. remain a sliver of food industry sales. Total combined retail and food service fresh produce sales were $94.8 billion in 2005, according to U. S. industry and government estimates.

The Cumberland Valley Produce Auction in Shippensburg, Pa., began in 1994 with roughly 500 Amish and Mennonite growers, whose customers were primarily local grocers and restaurants.

Since then, it has doubled in size, thanks in large part to the demand from large, well-known companies. Buyers come to Shippensburg from New York, Pittsburgh, Washington, D. C., and other points.

[Lydia]

Infact; 1000 years ago people only lived until 25 years old. Their children were grown up at 12! Your trying to tell me you want us to live even longer now...using "natural means"? Are you nuts, we should be stopping the growth of populations, and the land required to sustain us. That is the main problem.


Thank you Dogma, you actually said it all. To be perfectly honest, at my age of 62, I am more than prepared to meet my maker any time.""Don't get me wrong"" I want to live as long as I can. Anyone who thinks if they eat this or don't eat this or that will live any longer than our creator has deemed us is deceiving themselves.

God bless anyone who survived longer than their 50's. These people should thank their lucky stars for any years past that. You are correct Dogma, our society and science has allowed us to live longer. Should I be told how to eat or drink by someone else. I think not!!!!!.

However, I also am not the person who should tell them that they MUST eat only organic products or WELLNESS products or even MEDICAL products. I will listen to my own mind and decided. That means I want Organic, Wellness and Medical products to be available to me so that if I WANT to live longer i can.

Again think about how long society lives in other underprevileged countries and be grateful that we live here in Kingston.

[Dogma]

Wow; Lydia your not just a pretty face, but you are so profound too !

Keep it up, I learn so much everyday with you in our lives.

[Lydia]

Blush, Blush, Thank you Dogma, I am profound and not a Pretty Face at all . lol lol.

See everyone Dogma, is NICE after all. despite what I say about him. lmao.

Thanks Dogma, you and Greenland are not all that different from the rest of us out here. We are all just trying to live happily for as long as we can.

Enough of the NICEness. lol lol

[greenland]

Watch here for my new commentary postings...

Zero Mile Diet' Blooms in BC

http://thetyee.ca/News/2008/05/05/smallgirl.png
Return of the 'Victory Garden'?
'Dramatic' rise in food gardens, say seed vendors.

By James Glave (http://thetyee.ca/Bios/James_Glave)
Published: May 5, 2008

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TheTyee.ca

Against a backdrop of global food shortages and the spectre of five dollar lettuce at the checkout, there are signs that more Western Canadians are tearing up their lawns this spring to plant vegetable gardens.

It's still early in the planting season, but the region's organic-seed distributors report a dramatic increase in business.

"We put out the catalog at the beginning of January, as we always do" says Jeanette McCall, a sales representative at West Coast Seeds, based in Delta, B.C.

"Then, boom. We had many, many, many more orders than we anticipated. [Our computer system] simply couldn't handle the load," she adds. "It just sort of crashed."

It's the same story at Salt Spring Seeds, which specializes in heritage and heirloom vegetable varieties.

"I've never seen the likes of this in over 20 years of selling seeds," confirmed owner Dan Jason.

"The phone calls, e-mails, letters, seed orders are relentless. Everyone wants to grow food now. So many people are attempting gardens for the first time."
ADVERTISEMENT
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Meanwhile, Helene Waugh, co-owner of Sea Soil, a popular brand of bagged organic compost made in Port McNeil, on northern Vancouver Island, says that her business has "increased dramatically" over last year.

"We can't keep up," Waugh says.

'I think they get it'

McCall reports that her company, which was launched a quarter-century back, has seen "many thousands" of new customers this spring, and that staff are working seven days a week to process orders manually.

"We typically sell to people who own their own home, but this is different. These are young people who are very interested in food gardening. I think they get it."
What they're getting, local-eating advocates say, is a clearer picture of the connections between food, climate, and petroleum -- driven by news of an emerging global food crisis.

The current shortages are driven by a combination of factors, including the high price of oil, unusually severe weather impacting crops, population growth, and the conversion of maize into biofuels. Though the pinch has yet to be widely felt in Canada, reports are emerging in the United States that some big-box retailers are apparently limiting sales of rice.

All of this uncertainty is manifesting itself in a renewed and expanded commitment to locavorism (http://www.commondreams.org/cgi-bin/print.cgi?file=/views06/1009-24.htm), says Alisa Smith, co-author with James MacKinnon of the national best-seller 100 Mile Diet, which grew out of their series launched on The Tyee (http://thetyee.ca/Life/2005/06/28/HundredMileDiet/).

"We have seen a steady increase in the number of subscribers to the 100-Mile Diet Society web site (http://100milediet.org/home/) over the last two years, with B.C. our single biggest block of people and Vancouver the largest city in terms of subscribers in North America," reports Smith.

'Zero Mile Diet'

The director of a Vancouver non-profit urban-agriculture group suggests that the eat-local movement may have reached a new tipping point.

"There is definitely a buzz and an interest," observes City Farmer's Michael Levenston. "We are busy seven days a week; our classes are full, our phone is ringing. There is certainly a great interest generated in city farming and urban agriculture."

"Someone here said, 'This is trendy,' and trendy can be a good thing," adds Levenston. "There may be a new generation of food gardeners, and I think that's very exciting."

Salt Spring Seeds owner Dan Jason is equally stoked to be riding the home-grown wave. Jason has completely sold out his stock of "Zero Mile Diet" seed kits -- a collection of bean, grain, and other seeds tailored to help this region's people grow most of their own food.

"Enormous changes are afoot," he says.

[greenland]

Hay Greenland

I thought you would appreciate the news below about DOGMA'S LOBLAWS.

To remove the heat from chilled and frozen display fixtures, traditional grocery stores utilize a significant amount of refrigerant gas. When these refrigerants leak they cause greenhouse gas emissions. The Scarborough Superstore, through alternate design approaches, has reduced this refrigerant charge by 85%. The store is the first low temperature secondary CO2 system in Canada and the largest in North America. This will cause an estimated reduction to the store's carbon footprint of 15%.

Take that Dogma, lol lol lol. And he says Loblaws is no good. At least it is the FIRST to work for the environment. You can get more information about this chain on GlobeandMail Stock listings Look under the sybmol L-T.

Enjoy :D:D:D
Thanks for sharing this info, Lydia. Most of us never pay attention to the mechanics of keeping a store operational. It's complicated and expensive to have products available all year 'round in a clean and accessible building....with some staffed 24 hours, besides.

[greenland]

Watch here for my new commentary postings...

The 50-Million-Tree Slurp

http://thetyee.ca/Views/2008/04/30/coffee.png
How to give forests a coffee break.
Hey coffee drinker, isn't it time you started mugging it up?

By Ruben Anderson (http://thetyee.ca/Bios/Ruben_Anderson)
Published: April 30, 2008


print (http://thetyee.ca/Views/2008/04/30/Slurp/print.html)
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[/LIST]





TheTyee.ca

We have some amazing technology developing here in Canada. Homegrown high-tech whiz-bang -- Nobel Prize material, really.
This system is too good to be true: it can provide fuel, or be easily processed into one of our most versatile building materials; it can sequester CO2 to slow global warming; be harvested for food; increase ecosystem health and biodiversity by providing habitat for animals, birds, plants and insects; slow damaging storm-water runoff; purify water; and help remediate contaminated soils. The feedstock is free and abundant, and maintenance on the system is negligible.
Also in the Steal This Idea! (http://thetyee.ca/Series/2008/03/26/StealThisIdea/) series



We Can Be Garbage Free (http://thetyee.ca/Views/2007/11/28/GarbageFree/)
New Wine in Old Bottles (http://thetyee.ca/Views/2008/03/11/OldBottles/)
Let's Pave Streets Green (http://thetyee.ca/Views/2008/03/26/GreenStreets/)
Let's Claim Our Rotting Riches (http://thetyee.ca/Life/2008/07/10/RottingRiches/)
about the Steal This Idea! (http://thetyee.ca/Series/2008/03/26/StealThisIdea/) series


Or, we can destroy trees for pulp to make paper coffee cups, which, after 15 minutes of use, we throw in the garbage can. Then, we pick the cups up with pollution-belching trucks and throw them in a dump, where they rot and create more greenhouse gases. To say this is not an elegant solution to beverage transportation is quite an understatement -- but what could we replace it with?
I have never really understood the delight with which coffee companies brand their paper cups (http://www.flickr.com/photos/kristel_wyman/334877211/). After all, we usually throw stuff in the garbage because it is low quality or broken. Take a walk down any inner-city alley and you will quickly get a picture of which mattresses sag too soon and which televisions are prone to burning out. A look in the garbage cans will tell you which coffee shops are serious about the environment, and which ones are causing serious environmental damage.
Disposable taste buds?
There are lots of problems with disposable cups. Up to 90 per cent of flavour (http://www.smellandtaste.org/index.cfm?action=info.chemo) comes from the aroma you inhale, so the non-recyclable styrene lids make your morning jolt about one-tenth as delicious.
Paper cups are all lined with plastic to prevent sogginess and, if you want to keep your reproductive organs functioning (http://www.nrdc.org/health/effects/qendoc.asp), plastic is seldom considered a good marriage with hot or acidic liquids.
ADVERTISEMENT
http://thetyee.ca/adserver/www/images/1x1.gif
http://thetyee.ca/adserver/www/delivery/lg.php?bannerid=552&campaignid=538&zoneid=16&source=Views&cb=fd6c846bec


And of course, trees are elegant and amazing organisms that deserve better than to be pulped into coffee cups -- think Stradivarius. Forests generate value with an ease industry will never replicate. The unmeasured economic value provided by Canada's boreal forest for things like water filtration and air purification has been has been estimated at $93 billion (http://www.anielski.com/Documents/BW_Eng_FINAL.pdf). That is two and a half times as much as the combined economic value of the forestry, mining, oil and gas and hydroelectric industries in the boreal forest. This would represent eight per cent of Canada's entire GDP, and trees don't need a pension or healthcare.
And yet we keep grinding them up -- North America uses 60 per cent of the world's paper cups, 130 billion (http://www.paper360.org/paper360/data/articlestandard//paper360/252007/436364/article.pdf) of them per year. Those cups require about 50 million trees and 33 billion gallons of water (http://www.sustainabilityis****.com/table.html), which could sequester 9.3 million tonnes of CO2 (http://www.plant-trees.org/resources/Calculating%20CO2%20Sequestration%20by%20Trees.pdf ) and quench 550,000 drought-stricken citizens of the state of Georgia, without even asking them to lower their ridiculous consumption rate of 166 gallons per day.
Easy solutions
So. Please stop. There is really no need to argue further. Paper cups are stupid.
Let's dispense the obvious solution quickly: buy a travel mug. I bought this one (http://www.leevalley.com/garden/page.aspx?c=2&p=32449&cat=2,40733,40734) in 1997 and engraved my phone number on it in case I forgot it somewhere. But, if for some reason the same species that landed on the moon, climbed Mount Everest and eradicated polio cannot remember to carry a travel mug, we might want to have a few back-up systems.
A good place to start would be a deposit system (http://www.eckerd.edu/news/index.php?f=detail&id=2474), which has been very effective (http://www.grrn.org/beverage/refillables/Canada.html) for milk, beer and soda bottles -- there is even a café in Toronto selling coffee beans in returnable bottles (http://www.treehugger.com/files/2008/04/coffee-beans-in-deposit-bottles.php). I would suggest that a few stores or chains agree to co-brand metal travel mugs so you can return your mug to Joe's Café or Caffe Roma, whichever is more convenient. A cargo bike (http://www.rideyourbike.com/cargo.html) can redistribute mugs as needed if they start piling up in one store.
And, a deposit system suddenly gives value to used cups, something we used to call garbage. In fact, deposits fund a whole industry of binners, or dumpster divers -- servicing those of us who are too lazy to sort recyclables from trash. Just put your mug down anywhere and one of these hard-working urban recyclers will be happy to return it for you. So if those mega-chains just can't imagine living without the brand value of their cups spilling out of garbage cans everywhere, well, that pretty clearly speaks to who is just greenwashing, and who is truly trying to be green.
Looking at a stranger's mug
On a smaller scale, a coffee shop could head to the thrift shop and buy up the ceramic mugs. When I owned a coffee shop, we bought only the mugs that had been personalized with photographs. You know, the kind that say To Grandma, with pictures of babies on them. Some were more exciting, though. My favourite pictured a brunette in white lingerie, holding a glass of champagne and reclining on a hotel bed. Creepily, the I Love You message was in kiddie-style crayon writing.
Armed with these ***** mugs, the café can just give them away for customers to sip and stroll their way up the street. If a dozen metal, newspaper-style boxes were placed six blocks away, in a circle around the café, customers would come across a handy box to put their cup in just as their coffee was finished. Along roll the cargo bikes again, to whisk the cups back for washing.
Even as we transition to systems of deposits and reuse, let's remember to slow down and savour. Do you think the English are so passionate about a cup of steeped leaves, or is it the break, the time to think and talk and reflect, that they love?
So instead of throwing away our cups, let's throw away the smell of bleached paper and the cuts from sharp plastic lids. Once again, it turns out that living sustainably is actually more joyful -- not just better for the world, but better for us.

[greenland]

Dogma,
Thanks for the "farmers hit with growing pains" piece.

[greenland]

From the City of Kingston's website:


http://www.cityofkingston.ca/residents/environment/pesticide/index.asp


``````````````````````````


Natural Lawn and Pest Control

ALSO IN THIS SECTION

PESTICIDE BYLAW HOME (http://www.cityofkingston.ca/residents/environment/pesticide/index.asp)
Return to the main pesticide-use bylaw page.
QUESTIONS & ANSWERS (http://www.cityofkingston.ca/residents/environment/pesticide/questions.asp)
Answers to frequently asked questions about the pesticide-use bylaw.
DOWNLOADS

PESTICIDE-USE BYLAW (http://www.cityofkingston.ca/pdf/bylaws/bl_2008-28.pdf)
You can download bylaw 2008-28, the bylaw to Regulate the Use of Pesticides on Lawns within the City of Kingston.
[ http://www.cityofkingston.ca/img/icons/pdf.gif (http://www.cityofkingston.ca/pdf/bylaws/bl_2008-28.pdf) PDF 30KB]
HANDOUT/POSTER (http://www.cityofkingston.ca/pdf/environment/PesticidesBrochure.pdf)
Download "About Kingston's Pesticide Bylaw" handout/poster to give out to your customers or post in your workplace.
[ http://www.cityofkingston.ca/img/icons/pdf.gif (http://www.cityofkingston.ca/pdf/environment/PesticidesBrochure.pdf) PDF 87KB]
RELATED LINKS

COMPOSTING OVERVIEW (http://www.cityofkingston.ca/residents/waste/composting/index.asp)
Learn more about composting and vermi-composting (using worms).
WINTER COMPOSTING (http://www.cityofkingston.ca/residents/waste/composting/winter.asp)
You don't have to stop composting because it's cold outside.
PEST PROOFING (http://www.cityofkingston.ca/residents/waste/composting/pests.asp)
Pest proofing your compost bin.
YARD WASTE (http://www.cityofkingston.ca/residents/waste/leaf-yard/index.asp)
The City collects yard waste in the fall only. Find your leaf and brush collection schedule.
GRASSCYCLING (http://www.cityofkingston.ca/residents/waste/leaf-yard/grasscycling.asp)
Learn more about grasscycling — the natural recycling of grass by leaving clippings on the lawn.
PDF HELP

ADOBE READER (http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep2.html)
The freely available Adobe Reader software can be used to view the PDF documents on the City of Kingston Web site.
[http://www.cityofkingston.ca/images/misc/pdf.gif Download (http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep2.html)]

Your Lawn: Care That It's Pesticide-Free.
Pesticide-free lawn and garden care is a growing field and there are many products allowable under the Pesticide Bylaw now available to help you keep your lawn and garden healthy. Lawn care companies and professional gardeners are also developing expertise in this area.
Healthy lawns and gardens should not need pesticides or herbicides under normal conditions.
Some basic ways to help your grass and garden grow naturally beautiful:


Enrich your soil with compost.
Spread grass seed in the spring and fall.
Keep your grass at a healthy height.
Water deeply (but less frequently).
Use mulches and compost in your garden.
Plant a variety of flowering plants to attract birds and other natural enemies of plant pests.

Organically-grown lawns and gardens are truly healthy — good for you, your family and pets, your neighbours and the environment.
BASIC NATURAL GARDENING METHODS:



Use soil solarization and have the sun's heat kill your weeds and soil pests: put a clear plastic tarp over the area you want cleared of weeds or insects and let the hot July and August sun go to work. Early spring is the best time to dig a trench around an area you intend to solarize.
Aerate your lawn by poking holes in it with a pitchfork or using a core aerator.
Fertilize using an organic fertilizer like compost, manure, corn meal — depending on the pH of your garden's soil. A lawn care company, plant health spe******t, or organic gardening site can give you a good idea of what kind of fertilizer will help your garden.
Compost your yard waste and kitchen scraps like coffee filters, egg shells and vegetable peels, to get free fertilizer. You can learn more about how to make and use compost (http://www.cityofkingston.ca/residents/waste/composting).
Use endophytic grass seed to help develop a low-maintenance healthy lawn resistant to many types of bugs and tolerant of a variety of stresses.
Plant clover. Clover lawns are more resistant to pests and diseases, and clover competes with other broadleaf plants, which in turn reduces the amount of manual weeding necessary to maintain a green, healthy looking lawn.
Grasscycle. It's easy. Leave the grass clippings on the lawn and they will release nutrients into the soil. You can learn more about grasscycling and natural lawn care (http://www.cityofkingston.ca/residents/waste/leaf-yard/lawncare.asp).
Use liquid kelp to encourage growth. It's a popular natural growth supplement for plants and gardens.

TROUBLE-SHOOTING TIPS:

Here are a number of pesticide-free solutions to common garden problems. You can also refer to the list products allowable under the Bylaw. Lawn care providers, plant health experts, or organic gardening sites may also be consulted for other allowable treatment options.


Grubs. Pull up a brown patch of lawn and you may find you have grubs. You can repair grub damage by raking the area, applying compost or topsoil and putting down grass seed. Nematodes (a biological pest control product) can also help control most grub species - as well as more than 250 other soil-dwelling pests.
Cinch bugs. A sunken area of dead grass may have cinch bugs. To find out if you have cinch bugs: cut both ends off a large can (like a coffee can) and press it halfway into the soil; fill it with water and see if cinch bugs float to the top. Cinch bugs are small (4mm) and can be red or dark brown. If you have a large number of cinch bugs (more than 20), you can try vacuuming the affected area with a workshop-type vacuum and then watering it.
Aphids. Plant a variety of flowering plants to attract ladybugs. They eat aphids. Special soaps containing fatty acids, allowable under the Bylaw, can be used control aphids.
Dandelions and other weeds. A healthy lawn helps crowd out dandelions: aerate, fertilize, topdress and overseed your lawn with endophytic grass seed to keep it healthy. Raise the height of your mower blade and let the shade from longer grass blades prevent weed seeds from sprouting. Hand weed dandelions and other weeds, and mow them before they go to seed. You may also use corn gluten meal to prevent the germination of dandelion and crabgrass seeds. Weeds in sidewalks and pathways can be sprayed with horticultural vinegar or special soaps containing fatty acids.

PRODUCTS ALLOWABLE FOR OUTDOOR USE:

You may use these products on your lawn and garden. Look for them at your garden centre and read the label to make sure you have the right product to suit your needs and that its only active ingredient is on this list:


Soap: used to control insects like aphids, earwigs, slugs, whitefly, caterpillars, beetles and mealybugs. Some formulas kill moss.
Mineral oil (also called dormant or horticultural oil): used to control insects like red spiders, mealybugs and whitefly.
Silicon dioxide (also called diatomaceous earth — a crumbly, naturally occurring sedimentary rock): used to control insects like beetles, leafhoppers and fruitworms.
Biological pesticides like Bt (Bacillus thuringiensis), nematodes and other biological control agents: nematodes are used to control grubs. Bt is used to control leaf-chewing larvae, mosquitos and black flies.
Borax (also called boric or boracic acid): used to control ants.
Ferric or ferrous phosphates: used to control slugs and snails.
Acetic acid: used for spot-treatment of weeds like dandelions growing in patios.
Pyrethrum or pyrethrins: used to control insects like aphids, flies, mosquitos, earwigs and beetles.
Fatty acids: soaps mad from the potassium salt of fatty acids are used to control insects like aphids, mealybugs, spider mites, slugs, earwigs, caterpillars and beetles. Some formulations control weeds.
Sulphur (lime sulphur and other sulphur compounds used horticulturally): used to control insects like mites and plant diseases like black spot, rust and powdery mildew.
Corn gluten meal: used to prevent the germination of dandelion and crabgrass seeds.

The products on this list may be used alone or in combination.
Natural Gardening by Season

APRIL/EARLY MAY



Remove dead plants/parts of plants from garden and rake the lawn.
Add materials like compost, peat and manure to your soil — particularly garden beds.
Pull weeds.
Remove and compost dead leaves.
Consider preparing an area for soil solarization in July or August. Sharpen your mower's blade and set its height to 7.5 cm.
Watch trees for insects and remove any tent caterpillar nests.

MAY/JUNE



Plant any new plants by the end of May and remember to put mulch on them.
Aerate your lawn by poking holes in it with a pitchfork or using a core aerator.
Fertilize using an organic fertilizer like compost and/or topdress your lawn with a dusting of quality soil.
Pull weeds.
Mow your lawn before weeds (like dandelions) go to seed.
Check brown patches for underlying grubs and repair damage.

JULY/AUGUST



Water the lawn every two to three weeks during dry spells. The City's summer water restrictions allow households with even-numbered addresses to water on even numbered days and those with odd-numbered addresses on odd days.
Do not cut the lawn during dry spells. A dry lawn that turns brown is dormant (not dead). Try to stay off a dormant lawn. It will turn green again after it rains.
Prune plants as necessary.
Pull weeds.
Replenish mulch.
Consider applying liquid kelp as a plant/lawn growth supplement.
Start soil solarization to rid an area of your yard with many weeds or insects.
Check sunken areas of dead grass for cinch bug damage and repair.
Make sure trees are watered during extended dry spells.

LATE AUGUST/SEPTEMBER



Aerate the lawn, overseed and topdress the lawn. Consider using endophytic grass seed as these grasses are resistant to insects like chinch bugs.
Watch the lawn for insect damage after fall rains green up the garden. Repair any grub damage.
Clear, seed and water areas that you solarized.

LATE SEPTEMBER TO NOVEMBER



Fertilize.
Mulch.
Clean and winterize lawn equipment.
Grasscycle. It's easy. Leave the grass and mulched leaf clippings on the lawn and they will release nutrients into the soil.
Let leaves gather around the base of trees to protect tree roots.

[greenland]

Watch here for my new commentary postings...

FYI FOR ANYONE INTERESTED IN CAR SHARING :)


Hello
We are hosting a interested members meeting Sunday September 7th 3-5pm at 99 York St Kingston. Come and meet the members and bring your questions, there will be refreshments too! Please let me know if you plan to attend.
Kelsey

caseycoop2003@yahoo.ca

[greenland]

Denmark the world leader in Windmill production and the highest per capita user of wind power...is abandoning it major projects and $500,000,000 a year subsidy of windmill farms.

It has been proven that windmills are an unreliable source of energy.

Infact; more energy is used to produce & keep them turning than they provide into the "grid".

The problem is they do not produce energy realiably at peak times.

It depends when the wind blows adequetely enough and frequently enough to produce on demand. Power plants can gear up to satisfy peak periods, Nukes are always on, & Hydro electric is a steady source.

The best way to save power is not to use energy, or plan when it is not necessary.

Especially, peak times of the day, year.

To limit ones car usage, get rid of your dishwasher, microwave and to turn off your electronic devices..
use water barrels to collect garden water and turn off your lights!

If we all did this we would not need any windmills or coal fire plants!
http://www.windpower.org/en/core.htm

Here's a site re: Danish Wind Power. Interesting facts that might contradict you, Dogma.

[greenland]

Watch here for my new commentary postings...

`````````````````````````````````````````````````

For Immediate Release
2008-08-28 11:02 AM

For further information contact:
City of Kingston's media hotline, 613-546-4291, ext 2300.

Celebrate Local Food At Fare On The Square


Come to "Fare on the Square" from 11 a.m. to 3 p.m. on Saturday,
Sept. 6, and help Kingston's Public Market Vendors and 12 downtown
restaurants celebrate local food, local farmers and Kingston's Public
Market - the oldest continuously-running market in North America. Buy
$2 vouchers to sample each restaurant's offering made with local food!

There will also be a corn roast and free tomato tasting display. The
Kingston Public Market is located in Springer Market Square behind
City Hall at King and Brock Streets.

- 30 -

_______________________________________________

The City of Kingston News mailing list

[greenland]

Watch here for my new commentary postings...


http://www.bicyclefixation.com/blog/archives/00000179.html

[greenland]

Watch here for my new commentary postings...

http://www.goblue.org/en/

Good news:)

[Dogma]

So, Green-land can you tell us - WHAT out of all these "video clips", blogs and snip its.. do you infact actually do?

Or are you just here - to save the rest of us from ourselves???

[greenland]

So, Green-land can you tell us - WHAT out of all these "video clips", blogs and snip its.. do you infact actually do?

Or are you just here - to save the rest of us from ourselves???
Dogma....thanks for alerting me to the fact that I might not be doing anything really substantial except for sharing info and videos and such. I infiltrate society in a stealthy manner under many subtle and witty disguises.

[Dogma]

Dogma....thanks for alerting me to the fact that I might not be doing anything really substantial except for sharing info and videos and such. I infiltrate society in a stealthy manner under many subtle and witty disguises.


YOU still have not answered my question?

We know you issue these "alerts" and anadotial websites, blogs etc. i.e windfarms in Denmark...

Anyone can do that.

But, frankly you are incorrect most of the time!

This is the reality of Denmarks "windpower" contributions:

The countries with the highest total installed wind power capacity are:
1. Germany (18,428 MW)
2. Spain (10,027 MW)
3. United States (9,149 MW)
4. India (4,430 MW)
5. Denmark (3,122 MW)

The Danes are infact are also getting out of windpower, because it costs to much and the wind is NOT available when they actually need it. They are cancelling windfarms and are abandoning the "wind power" program and its hype...that also prevails - in "Green-land's" mind... and to many others that have these "quick" (web links) that are more about misinformation than researched fact....

Stop scattering these links through our society.

And just answer my question - please.

Please if your going to act responsibily with "environmental subjects" - please be more informed than quickly issuing web sites, that are both inaccurate and bias.

[Lydia]

Dogma, I am NOT an environmentalist however I am a person who loves NATURE. Althought Greenland shares website links that are environmentally interesting, we don't need to agree with them. However, We better at least realize what is happening and what influences others in our society.

We need both side of issues. Greenland and I don't agree with a few things, however Greenland has always been open, willing to listen, willing to keep and open mind on my side of things. (trust me as you know that isn't easy lol lol)

However, althought you don't agree with Greenland positions, we need to see both sides. Don't attack the messenger, just state your postion on what is being said.

You, I, and Greenland are at least doing that. I only wish more people would place their positions on things for others to see as well.

[Dogma]

Lydia - you are right. I should be less critical of these "sound bites".

I should just ask Greenland (I believe it is also a EU country) to make it interesting to us, or to at least form an opinion for discussion.

..regarding her..hands on experiences with such environmental initatives, or maybe the sound bites she kindly offers the group.

-"sound bites" - are not enough or exactly fact, to support an argument.

Yes, links or sound bites are helpful (sometimes) but please no one can could possibly have a balance informed opinion - based on "sound bites". -

GIVE us your (informed) opinions "regarding these links". - maybe?

Instead of.........

http://www.goblue.org/en/

Good news:)
__________________
...Greenland

[Lydia]

Dogma I agree with you on the above posting. I would actually love to have Greenland's honest views on the sound bites that is being shared. I know that Greenland find these links to share with us and also allows us to at least thing of what environmentalist in the world are actually doing.

Let's start something new here. Next time Greenland shares a sound bite with us. Let's put our honest views towards the link.

I will feel very uninformed about them for the most part because I really don't follow many of the environmental issues. However, I am rarely afraid to share my stinking thinking on stuff either. lol lol. (as you know).

I would love to see the rest of the people who are environmentalists come on here and either support greenland's position or present their own views on the links. By the way Where is my Councilor on these issues anyway, Robert Matheson is an environmentalist and actually campaigned to make the environment a better place here in Kingston. Where is Bridget Doherty on this issues as well. Hell where is the Greens on here as well????

[greenland]

I do not aspire to hit people over the head with my opinions. THINK FOR YOURSELF and get over me, Dogma.

However, please continue to rebut the info I bring to the table. That's what we need.

[greenland]

Can restaurants go green, earn green?
Updated 5/19/2008 2:05 AM | Comments23 (http://www.kingstonelectors.ca/forums/#uslPageReturn) | Recommend9 (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:void%28%27Recommend%27%29)
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http://i.usatoday.net/money/_photos/2008/05/16/greenx.jpg (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:;)http://i.usatoday.net/_common/_images/clear.gifhttp://i.usatoday.net/_common/_images/_inside/enlarge.gif (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:;) Enlarge (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:;)By Tim Loehrke, USA TODAYhttp://i.usatoday.net/_common/_images/clear.gifAt Ted's Montana Grills, such as this one in Sterling, Va., with server Amanda Piercy, items (highlighted in green) such as bags, boxes, straws, utensils and fluorescent light bulbs are all ecofriendly.
http://images.usatoday.com/_common/_images/clear.gifhttp://images.usatoday.com/_common/_images/clear.gifhttp://images.usatoday.com/_common/_images/clear.gif MAKING IT GREENERhttp://images.usatoday.com/_common/_images/clear.gif
The National Restaurant Association is unveiling a green restaurant initiative. The purpose is to convince restaurant owners that going green isn't just better for the environment - it's also better for business.
Entryway


Make sure doors close correctly, to reduce heating/cooling operation.
Replace traditional exit signs with LED1 exit lighting.


Dining room


Open window blinds in winter to help warm and light interior.
Replace incandescent bulbs with CFL1 or LED1 lights.


Kitchen


Clean appliances regularly for more efficient operation.
Replace incandescent bulbs with CFL1 or LED1 lights.
Turn off unused cooking hoods.
Install motion detectors in storerooms and offices. Set lights on timers.


Refrigerator/freezer


Install energy curtains in freezer rooms.


Dishwashing


Serve customers water upon request. Run dishwashers, washing machines only when full.


Restrooms


Install low-flow toilets and waterless urinals. Repair leaky faucets, toilets.
Install motion detectors for lighting.


Building materials


Use low-VOC1 or no-VOC1 paints, recycled flooring and managed forest wood. Install a reflective roof, skylights and energy-efficient windows.


Waste area


Recycle paper, plastic, glass and aluminum.


1 - LED: Light-emitting diode; VOC: Volatile organic compounds; CFL: Compact fluorescent lamp; Source: National Restaurant Association
http://images.usatoday.com/_common/_images/clear.gif

By Bruce Horovitz (http://www.kingstonelectors.ca/community/tags/reporter.aspx?id=83), USA TODAY
ARLINGTON, Va. — Ted Turner struts into one of his busiest restaurants at lunch hour and is ogled by startled customers. One overeager diner leaps in front of Turner for a handshake, then gushes, "Love your food, Ted. What's next?"

The short answer: green grub.
Turner, the media mogul turned philanthropist, now wants to be known as something of a different color: a green restaurant owner. In other words, a guy whose restaurants leave a smaller carbon footprint on the environment.
Which is why you won't find a plastic straw or cup in any of Ted's Montana Grills' 55 casual dining restaurants. The straws are made from biodegradable paper. The menus are printed on 100% recycled paper. Even the cups are cornstarch.
Turner is helping to fund a "green" restaurant initiative that the powerful National Restaurant Association (NRA) will unveil Monday at its annual convention in Chicago. The purpose: to nudge owners of the nation's 945,000 restaurants to think about controlling energy use and waste creation.

"Imagine the implications for global warming if we get the whole restaurant industry to go green," says Turner.
If the restaurant industry can dial down the enormous environmental damage it does daily even slightly, it would be huge. Restaurants are the retail world's largest energy user. They use almost five times more energy per square foot than any other type of commercial building, says Pacific Gas & Electric's Food Service Technology Center (FSTC).
Nearly 80% of the $10 billion dollars that the commercial food service sector spends annually for its energy use is lost in inefficient food cooking, holding and storage, says PG&E's tech division.
The average restaurant annually consumes roughly 500,000 kilowatt hours of electricity, 20,000 therms of natural gas and 800,000 gallons of water. Using the latest EPA carbon equivalents, that amounts to 490 tons of carbon dioxide produced per year per restaurant, PG&E estimates.
Then there's all that trash. Restaurants produce far more garbage on a daily basis than most other retail businesses. A typical restaurant generates 100,000 pounds of garbage per location per year, the Green Restaurant Association estimates.
There couldn't be a tougher time for the $558 billion restaurant industry to put on a green face. Consumers are eating out less due to the soft economy, and those who do eat out are spending less. The industry outlook, as measured by the NRA, fell in March to its lowest on record. Some 55% said sales fell at sites open a year or more.
But just six months into her job as the NRA's president, Dawn Sweeney is pushing the green button hard. "It's huge to me professionally and personally," she says. "We can do more, and we will."
The NRA has created a website that goes live Friday,conserve.restaurant.org (http://www.conserve.restaurant.org/), that offers tips on how restaurants can conserve water and energy and construct "greener" buildings, and gives restaurant owners a place to share ideas.
The industry didn't suddenly get a green heart. Chipotle has lived and breathed green since its founding 15 years ago. Starbucks has been an industry leader. But for the most part, the industry is responding to criticism and to new awareness that restaurants can save serious money by taking small steps:
•Placing low-flow valves in the sprayers that pre-rinse dishes can save a restaurant 73,000 gallons of water a year, estimates the FSTC.
•Replacing a standard urinal with a waterless one can save 40,000 gallons of water per year, says the Environmental Protection Agency.
•If just 10% of restaurants replaced one incandescent light bulb with a compact fluorescent bulb, the energy savings would be $2.8 million, the EPA says.
"Everything that comes out of a restaurant could either be recycled or composted," says Charles Kubert, senior business spe******t at the Environmental Law & Policy Center, among the largest environmental advocacy groups in the Midwest. "Yet, most restaurants don't do a good job of either."
Industry actions, not words, need to be watched, says Michael Oshman, founder of the Green Restaurant Association, which certifies green restaurants.
"It's great that everyone is hopping aboard the green bandwagon," says Oshman, who's lobbied for green restaurants since 1990. "But they need to hop on board more than the marketing."
The industry is late to the game. "The restaurant industry tends to follow, not lead," says Chris Muller, restaurant management professor at University of Central Florida.
But some chains, large and tiny, are trying:
Delivering eco-pizza
Pizza Fusion is little-known outside of South Florida, where the chain has four of its five units. But it's raising eyebrows not for pizza, but for its pizza delivery vehicles: hybrid cars.
"There's a powerful marketing message when people see these cars," says Vaughan Lazar, co-founder of the chain.
Each store leases up to four hybrid delivery cars. Its pizza is made with locally grown organic ingredients; menus are on paper made from sugar cane pulp; and its counters are made from recycled soft-drink bottles.
This comes at a price. A large pizza with one topping fetches nearly $20, about twice the price of the competition. Lazar knows that costs him some customers. But he insists it attracts others.
Turning grease to fuel
Burgerville, a 39-unit chain with locations in Oregon and Washington collects and recycles its oil and grease into biodiesel fuel.
It collects about 4,000 gallons per month, which makes about 3,300 gallons of biodiesel fuel, says CEO Jeff Harvey. About half its restaurants compost. All recycle their refuse. Employees collect and separate guest garbage.
The chain serves local, seasonal foods such as onion rings in the summer and sweet potato fries in the fall. But with an average ticket of $8, Harvey says food at his chain can cost about twice that of the competition. "People pay the extra money for better-quality food, not to save the environment," he says.
Building green units
By 2010, all new Starbucks (SBUX) (http://stocks.usatoday.com/custom/usatoday-com/html-quote.asp?symb=sbux) stores built in the USA will be green buildings certified by the U.S. Green Building Council, a non-profit independent group that certifies buildings that meet minimum green standards. Starbucks has one green-certified location in Hillsboro, Ore.
The chain, which sells 2.3 billion hot beverages and nearly 1 billion cold beverages globally each year, hopes by 2010 to serve most of its drinks to in-store customers in ceramic mugs, says Jim Hanna, environmental affairs manager.
McDonald's (MCD) (http://stocks.usatoday.com/custom/usatoday-com/html-quote.asp?symb=mcd) is building its first company-owned green restaurant in Chicago. It opens this summer. The pavement in the parking lot is permeable to reduce storm water flowing to city sewers. The roof collects rain and distributes it to the landscape. The goal is to get the building certified by the U.S. Green Building Council, says Jim Carras, McDonald's restaurant development chief.
Scrapping some wrapping
Subway is testing a new way to serve subs to dine-in customers: with less wrapping. Unwrapped sandwiches are served on a thin paper sheet placed inside a basket made of 10% recycled material. The test will expand this summer to more markets, says Elizabeth Stewart, marketing chief.
But Subway's biggest green impact has been its napkins, made from 100% recycled paper. Subway figures its 4 billion recycled napkins save 147,000 trees annually.
Seeking paper straws
To go plastic-free, George McKerrow Jr., CEO at Ted's Montana Grill, searched for a paper straw maker six years ago. He couldn't find one.
Then, he located a firm that in 1888 had the first patent for paper straws. It stopped making them decades ago after plastic took off. McKerrow persuaded it to try again. Now, Aardvark Straws sells 5.6 million straws yearly to Ted's.
At 1.5 cents apiece, the straws cost five times more than plastic, concedes John Mangum, director of sales at Aardvark. "There's no hiding that. It is what it is."
Using worms to eat waste
Behind upscale Restaurant Eve in Alexandria, Va., where a five-course dinner fetches $105, owner Cathal Armstrong raises hundreds of worms that eat some of the restaurant's organic waste. Each worm eats its weight in waste daily. Worm castings are used as fertilizer in the vegetable garden behind the restaurant.
Worms aside, the challenges that green restaurants face are many. Tops among them: eater apathy.
"If Morton's advertised that it was going green, it wouldn't make one bit of difference to me," says Ron Totin, a food distributor sales executive who eats out four times weekly. "Green is not a contributing factor in picking a restaurant." Only 29% of consumers polled last spring by Restaurants & Institutions said they would be more likely to patronize a green restaurant.
In a tough economy, many folks won't pay extra costs that some associate with green agendas. "If you ask somebody, they'd probably say green is good," says Malcolm Knapp, an industry consultant. "But in a more practical sense, you might have a couple of 20-year-old women who actually care."
Going green isn't always golden.
Ask Ben Prentice. Last year, he opened The Grille Zone across from Boston University. Among the green deeds it did was to use energy-efficient cooking equipment. The restaurant decomposed so much, it didn't need a dumpster. (It shared one with a nearby restaurant.) Its daily garbage fit into half a 55-gallon bag.
The restaurant got lots of PR. But "that publicity didn't sell many burgers," says Prentice. Within eight months, the restaurant closed.
Grille Zone's problem was a different color green — poor financing, says Prentice. Still, folks didn't beat down the doors for its $6 burgers.
Some are nudging Prentice to give the green restaurant business one more try. "I encourage it for others," he says. As for himself, "I'm not sure I have it in me right now."
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[Dogma]

Think for myself? Think for myself???

Does that mean I should COPY "sound bites"..and post them? - and that is "thinking for myself"?

I don't think so Green-land. I beleive we only get from you is "sound bites".

Thses are neither your thoughts or ideas!

Next - time please just give us (as I asked before) YOUR opinions, ideas and WHAT you exactly do for the environment....

I see nothing here from you - that represents in any way - YOUR ideas!

[greenland]

http://www.terrapass.com/blog/posts/aussies-cultivate-burpless-grass
ussies cultivate ‘burpless’ grass

http://www.terrapass.com/images/blogposts/pfreed.jpg Moving beyond cleaner cars, researchers look for a cleaner cow.

by Peter Freed – May 20, 2008

http://www.terrapass.com/images/blogposts/cow-burp.jpg Researchers in Australia have received funding to develop more digestible feeds for cattle (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/05/080506120859.htm) — “burpless” grass, in industry parlance — that result in less methane being produced as they are broken down in cows’ stomach(s).
As a recent returnee to the world of eating meat, I cringe when thinking about the impact raising that meat has on the environment. Here on the TerraPass carbon project team we spend quite a bit of time thinking about what we like to call the “business end” of a cow. TerraPass funds projects that clean up the methane from cow manure, but as it turns out, the natural digestive process in a cow’s many stomachs produces quite a bit more methane than the manure itself. This process, known in industry lingo as enteric fermentation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enteric_fermentation), produces some very significant “methane burps.” Shy of putting some kind of gas mask on the cow, this source of emissions has been treated as largely unmanageable — until now.
This is one of several interesting initiatives originating down under that seek to curb methane emissions from raising animals. Another study is attempting to shed light on why kangaroos are naturally burpless (http://www.abc.net.au/rural/news/content/200804/s2228878.htm).
Coupled with anaerobic digester projects (http://www.terrapass.com/projects/farm-power.html) this strikes us an exciting and potentially holistic approach to mitigating some of the environmental impacts of consuming animal products. It does make you wonder though, to what lengths are we willing to go to continue the consumption of animal products when the easiest solution is just to forego them all together?



```````````````````````````
Now that the green movement is moving ahead so quickly, I love that the research is going in all directions. This article made me laugh, but I know it has merit. I love that kangaroos have no issues with burping.

[greenland]

http://www.terrapass.com/blog/posts/terrapass-review-of-scanguage





ScanGauge review

http://www.terrapass.com/images/blogposts/tom.jpg Real-time mileage feedback inspires fuel-efficient driving habits.

by Tom Arnold – May 27, 2008

http://www.terrapass.com/images/blogposts/Scangauge_install1 The ScanGauge can be installed many places with a Velcro kit. I chose the center of the dash, for easy access to the real time mpg data.

I’ve always been jealous of the miles per gallon readings in friend’s Prius, but my wife and I don’t really drive enough to warrant a new car purchase. So I took a chance on installing the ScanGauge (http://www.terrapass.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=CR-0006001-A&Store_Code=TerraPass) into our ‘99 Outback as soon as it was in stock. We’ve had it installed for two weeks now, and it’s totally changed the way we drive. We now compete to see who can get the best mileage stats.
http://www.terrapass.com/images/blogposts/Scangauge_install2 The ScanGauge installation is simple. Start by locating the OBD-II port. In this Subaru, it’s on the left-hand side under the steering wheel.

Installation was a breeze, actually so simple that I had to check the manual to make sure I hadn’t missed something. Subaru owners take note: you have to adjust a setting in the menu to prevent the device from falling asleep. My only other quibble is that the real-time gauges don’t give you trip average mpg, which would be a useful stat. If you are a gearhead, you’ll find lots of other data available, as well at error codes useful for diagnosing that pesky check engine light.
The ScanGauge does everything I’ve seen in the Prius, plus shows you fuel cost and trip cost. Many others have reported that a real time mpg gauge dramatically changed their driving style, and I have to say it’s true. A Saturday trip had me at a mellow 60 on the interstate, trying to goose the mpg higher. Perhaps the novelty will wear off, but in the era of $4 gas, the real-time feedback makes you think twice before flooring it.
http://www.terrapass.com/images/blogposts/Scangauge_install3 Then simply plug in the ScanGauge cable. It is really that simple. I had to check the manual to make sure I wasn’t missing anything, and spent longer arranging the cable than anything else.

We still haven’t gassed up since installing the ScanGauge, so I haven’t yet tested the fuel calibration features, but I’ll report back on the fuel cost features when we do.
Overall I was impressed. A great buy and really effective reminder of your footprint when you have to drive. A note to my father: please stop reading now. Really.
…
Ok, so the other thing, between you and me, is the ScanGauge is just about the coolest Father’s Day gift (http://www.terrapass.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=CR-0006001-A&Store_Code=TerraPass) around. It’s nifty, smart and economical, and involves a project that is on the one hand really easy, and on other hand will win points with Mom (for being smart and economical).



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[Lydia]

Hi Greenland, This is funny as well as interesting. I wonder now when my hubby eats that cow, will he be burpless as well??? lmao.

There is a problem with this however, I heard that there are people who are trying to harness the gases that animals put out and convert it into bio-fuel. Now will this blurpless Cow not give any gases as well? lmao


Now all the joking aside. I wonder how this will eventually affect humans.

Again thanks for sharing.:):):)

[greenland]

Hi Greenland, This is funny as well as interesting. I wonder now when my hubby eats that cow, will he be burpless as well??? lmao.

There is a problem with this however, I heard that there are people who are trying to harness the gases that animals put out and convert it into bio-fuel. Now will this blurpless Cow not give any gases as well? lmao


Now all the joking aside. I wonder how this will eventually affect humans.

Again thanks for sharing.:):):)
Lydia---I think the green/eco movement is going to show 2 outcomes. One is: The green bandwagon is going to continue to win converts in unimaginable amts.....OR...Two: there will be growing no. of people who just can't stand any more revelations of harmful compounds in the air/water/shampoos, etc. and they are going to put bigger blinders on and try to ignore the state of the planet/their homes! I wonder which group will carry the day?

[Lydia]

Greenland, I believe that people are afraid of change because they don't understand what is expected of them and they feel that things are being thrown at them. This is believe is why people resist change.

I believe that we need KNOWLEDGE both bad and good. Yes even the bad because you need to see both sides of an issue. That not only is true to the converts of the Greens but it is also true of the old timers like me.

We seem to be so fearful of everything these days. We have to instill hopeful ways in changing the way we do things. Let's sit down and at least listen to each other. I know you and I do but others much join us.

i.e. Where are the Greens on here besides you and me.

[Dogma]

Green-land can't tell us - 3 things she does (significantly applied environmental actions) that she does and long term to "save the planet".

And I would be willing to bet none would really last though her life.

She is young and idealist, let us see when she (wants kids) and (wants a car to drive them to school) and (wants a new house in the suburbs) ...she will be and act like MOST from big cities that no little about "real change" in their lives that will make a significant change to our current, marginal attempt to call one an urban environmentalist!

Let her true "long term foot print" - really reveals how greenish she really is and how little she has applied (actions) to this world.

Or prove me wrong?

[Lydia]

Dogma, You mean to tell me that if you are YOUR AGE, Have already Raised a Family, Rides Bikes to have the Environment that this makes you an environmentalist??????

Dogma, you are 1000% wrong about Greenland who not only LIVES GREEN but acts accordingly.

I can understand if you don't care about environmental issues and are not WILLING to at least read or listen to greenland that you would have your views on Greenland.

Keep in mind Dogma, I don't and never will call myself an environmentalist because I don't LIVE that way at all. However, I have actually learned alot from Greenland even if it is to agree or disagree with the postings.

I don't understand why you are so upset with Greenland. Let's say that you want to make our area of this world a better place, What would you do to clean it up? Lets start from there.

I already told you that I am totally against the Pesticide Ban, I won't drive a bike on the roads, etc. These are issues that environmentalist agree with but I don't. That doesn't make me correct in my thinking. It means that I won't change unless i have more proof that Environmentalist are going after the Manufacturers to become more responsible and that this city REALLY starts helping people to clean out their basements and old appliances by having road side pickups once a month to get rid of crap that is in EVERYONE'S homes instead of the landfills.

I guess this city THINKS that if THEY don't see it in the landfill that there isn't any trash all over this city. Maybe the trash is not in the landfill but it sure is in everyone's basements. :mad::mad:

[Dogma]

So, what does Green -land really know about environmental issues?

Bio-gas

Wind power

Urban environmental sustainable lifestyle

Answer these three (3) issues with relavent and concrete examples..and I will consider "Green-land" a person of environmental intelligence & experience.

And NO sound bites!

[greenland]

Climate Findings Were Distorted, Probe Finds

Appointees in NASA Press Office Blamed


http://media3.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/photo/2008/06/02/PH2008060203044.jpg (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:void%28popitup%28%27http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/photo/postphotos/orb/asection/2008-06-03/index.html?imgId=PH2008060203046&imgUrl=/photo/2008/06/02/PH2008060203046.html%27,650,850%29%29) James Hansen told of being censored. (Melanie Patterson - AP)




By Juliet Eilperin (http://projects.washingtonpost.com/staff/email/juliet+eilperin/)
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, June 3, 2008; Page A02

An investigation by the NASA (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/NASA?tid=informline) inspector general found that political appointees in the space agency's public affairs office worked to control and distort public accounts of its researchers' findings about climate change for at least two years, the inspector general's office said yesterday.
The probe came at the request of 14 senators after The Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/The+Washington+Post+Company?tid=informline) and other news outlets reported in 2006 that Bush administration officials had monitored and impeded communications between NASA climate scientists and reporters.
James E. Hansen, who directs NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies and has campaigned publicly for more stringent limits on greenhouse gases that contribute to global warming, told The Post and the New York Times (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/The+New+York+Times+Company?tid=informline) in September 2006 that he had been censored by NASA press officers, and several other agency climate scientists reported similar experiences. NASA and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/U.S.+National+Oceanic+and+Atmospheric+Administrati on?tid=informline) are two of the government's lead agencies on climate change issues.
From the fall of 2004 through 2006, the report said, NASA's public affairs office "managed the topic of climate change in a manner that reduced, marginalized, or mischaracterized climate change science made available to the general public." It noted elsewhere that "news releases in the areas of climate change suffered from inaccuracy, factual insufficiency, and scientific dilution."
Officials of the Office of Public Affairs told investigators that they regulated communication by NASA scientists for technical rather than political reasons, but the report found "by a preponderance of the evidence, that the claims of inappropriate political interference made by the climate change scientists and career public affairs officers were more persuasive than the arguments of the senior public affairs officials that their actions were due to the volume and poor quality of the draft news releases."
http://media3.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/hp/img/ad_label_leftjust.gif

The political interference did not extend to the research itself or its dissemination through scientific journals and conferences, the investigators said. "We found no evidence indicating NASA blocked or interfered with the actual research activities of its climate scientists," the report said, but as a result of the actions of the political appointees, "trust was lost, at least temporarily, between the agency and some of its key employees and perhaps the public it serves."
Kristin Scuderi, a spokeswoman for the White House (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/The+White+House?tid=informline) Office of Science and Technology Policy, said in an e-mail that director John H. Marburger III "would not comment until he's reviewed the report, and he has not yet done so yet. Therefore, OSTP has no comment at this time."
Sen. Frank Lautenberg (http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/members/l000123/) (D-N.J.), one of the senators who pressed for the investigation, said in a statement that the report showed that citizens had been denied access to critical scientific information that should inform public policy.
"Global warming is the most serious environmental threat we face -- but this report is more evidence that the Bush Administration's appointees have put political ideology ahead of science," Lautenberg said. "Our government's response to global warming must be based on science, and the Bush Administration's manipulation of that information violates the public trust."

[Dogma]

I agree.

The wests new forum of interest regarding "climate change" and its subsequent data, information is based on a mutitude of various instiutions and researchers that vary in their interpretations of the facts as much as the "facts" themselves.

This is not new.

Nor is the age old forum of "propaganda" and politic's.

Not that any of these realities are necessarily "for the good"....of society

Obviously; the "old boys" conspiracy club be thrown out of office and a "Girls Club" maybe put in, would help..right?

But, you are suggesting that it can be completely stopped? - I see no input by you to know?

I'm all ear's on your suggestions.

Politic's is just a part of our human condition - I guess.

[Lydia]

I'm all ear's on your suggestions.


Dogma, Dogma, Dogma, You are ALL EARS???? Here I thought you never listened to me. lol lol.

The only thing I knew that was ALL EARS was Dumbo the Elephant.:eek::eek:

I would love to see an ALL GIRLS GROUP as well. lol lol. I bet that WE would solve all kinds of things. lol lol.

[Dogma]

If your thinking of expanding this forums environ-mental Girls Club - there are probably some recruit's to be found on A"beer"deen St. tonight.

Just wait until after 12 midnight...they maybe easier to sign up for your various sound bite committee's.

[greenland]

Cutting the carbon from your diet

http://www.terrapass.com/images/blogposts/adam.jpg Forget food miles and take a look at what’s on your plate.

by Adam Stein – May 27, 2008

http://www.terrapass.com/images/blogposts/food-miles.gif I’ve been digging more deeply into the question of what you should eat if you’re looking to lower your carbon footprint. I’ll have a few posts on this topic coming up, because it’s one of those vexed issues with lots of tradeoffs and corner cases and tricky considerations. But let’s start off by keeping it simple: eat less red meat and dairy.
A lot of people, myself included, happen to enjoy eating meat and dairy. Take solace in fact that “less meat” isn’t necessarily the same as “no meat.” Take further solace in the fact that chicken, fish, and eggs aren’t nearly as problematic as beef. In some future posts, I’ll try to ease the pain with practical tips. For now, though, let’s look at the data.
A recent study (http://pubs.acs.org/cgi-bin/abstract.cgi/esthag/2008/42/i10/abs/es702969f.html) dug into the “food miles” debate with a more a comprehensive analysis of the climate impact of food production and transportation, based on the consumption of a typical U.S. household. The results were surprising: although food travels on average over 1,000 miles from farm to plate, this transportation accounts for only 4% of the carbon impact of the average American meal. In other words, even in the ideal scenario that you lived on a farm, you’d only be shaving 4% off your food footprint by eating locally — the rough equivalent of driving 1,000 miles less per year.
On the other hand, shifting just one day per week of red meat consumption to chicken, fish, or eggs achieves a reduction equivalent to 760 miles of driving. Shifting one day of red meat per week to fruits and veggies is the equivalent of 1,160 miles of driving. Swapping red meat entirely for other meats reduces the equivalent of 5,340 miles of driving. And going fully vegetarian is practically like giving up a car: 8,100 miles of driving. And when you think about it, this is good news for most of us. Cutting down food miles can actually be rather difficult. Cutting back on meat is fairly simple.
It’s worth unpacking the study a bit further. First, some perspective: local food devotees have motivations beyond just greenhouse gas emissions. There are plenty of good environmental, economic, social, and culinary reasons for favoring food grown nearby. Likewise, many considerations beyond climate change affect people’s personal decisions around meat consumption. Food can’t be reduced to a single issue.
And now some subtler considerations:


The study considered the case of the average American household. If you’re reading this blog, there’s a good chance you’re not the average American household. You may already take steps to green your consumption choices, in which case the savings available to you from cutting meat consumption are smaller. Still, reducing your intake of beef and dairy is one of the simplest ways to shed CO2 from your diet.
The study looks at aggregate food groups, which is entirely unhelpful if you’re trying to figure out how the organic raspberries from Chile compare to the conventionally grown peaches from California; or how the grass-fed, pasture-raised beef compares to that farmed salmon. Needless to say, there is considerable variation in production techniques within food groups. On the other hand, most of us aren’t cooking most of our meals, so the broad rules of thumb are still generally quite useful.
Beef is even worse than the study makes it appear. The life cycle analysis doesn’t account for land use changes from beef production. A lot of rain forest gets chopped down to make way for cows.
Consider skipping the soda. The beverage category isn’t a huge source of emissions, but I suspect it’s one of the easiest to cut. (And of course you’ve already given up the bottled water, right?)
The study contains some unintentional weight-loss advice. Dairy (milk, butter, and cheese) is CO2-intensive and also quite energy dense. Shifting dollars into fruits and vegetables will cut not just carbon but calories from your diet.
If you’re already a vegetarian, considerations such as food miles and organic farming techniques become proportionately more important. The absolute amount of carbon reductions available don’t change, but the relative importance of these factors increases.
Globalization of the food supply doesn’t appear to be the big deal you might think, because trucking is so much worse, from an emissions perspective, than ocean shipping. (Planes, of course, are dreadful.)

[greenland]

I agree.

The wests new forum of interest regarding "climate change" and its subsequent data, information is based on a mutitude of various instiutions and researchers that vary in their interpretations of the facts as much as the "facts" themselves.

This is not new.

Nor is the age old forum of "propaganda" and politic's.

Not that any of these realities are necessarily "for the good"....of society

Obviously; the "old boys" conspiracy club be thrown out of office and a "Girls Club" maybe put in, would help..right?

But, you are suggesting that it can be completely stopped? - I see no input by you to know?

I'm all ear's on your suggestions.

Politic's is just a part of our human condition - I guess.
I have no solutions except to say that I hope we never give up looking for the story behind the story. Discernment, discernment, discernment!

[Lydia]

Greenland, Doug and I have a remedy to the damage Meat does to this planet. We VOW that ANY COW THAT POLUTES OUR AIR WITH THE GASES IT RELEASES WIL BE EATEN IMMEDIATELY. Now if we all do the same these cows won't be doing that again!!!!!


The only poluting that happens is due to transporting MEAT from OTHER COUNTRIES. Do we REALLY need New Zealand's Lamb????? etc etc. Do we really need FISH FROM CHINA?????? etc etc. Our government has almost made it impossible for us to grow our own cattle, fish our own fish, etc.

Now I will agree that it is a good thing to have various types of proteins-- Beef, PorK, Chicken, Fish, and various types of vegetables and their by-products.

So Greenland, it isn't the people who eat beef that is creating the problem it is our Government and Big Business. Maybe environmentalists should stop telling people not to eat beef but go after the people who are creating the problem.

Now I realize that you are just sharing information here with us and I thank you for that. However, i also must share my own opinion on this as well.

[greenland]

For further information contact:
Tracy Carson, Marketing Coordinator, STANTIVE Technologies Group
Inc., 613-887-2604. Or call the City of Kingston's media hotline at
613-546-4291, ext. 2300.

SEE Green Summit Brings City Leaders Together

Event Attracts Renowned Speakers On The Environment

The upcoming SEE Green Summit - which will bring together Kingston
leaders to develop a plan for a sustainable procurement accord - has
attracted world-renowned speakers known for parlaying
sustainable-thinking into success stories.

Bob Willard, author of The Business Case for Sustainability, Claude
Ouimet of InterfaceFlor Commercial - a company on the forefront of
sustainable manufacturing - and Leadership in Energy and
Environmental Design expert, Sholem Prasow, are the keynote speakers
at the two-day Summit.

"Our intention to build a sustainable procurement accord has
attracted the attention of these high-calibre speakers - and that's a
great indication that this effort puts us on the right track to meet
our goal of making Kingston Canada's most sustainable city," says
Paul MacLatchy, the City's Director of Strategy, Environment & Communications.

SEE Green is a burgeoning organization of Kingston community and
business leaders who are meeting for their first summit from Oct. 30
to 31 at the Radisson Hotel, in part to develop a plan and a protocol
for a joint Sustainable Procurement Accord. The aim of the Accord is
to signal its signing members' commitment to use their buying power
to make sustainable purchasing decisions.

"We're excited about the kind of progress we can make toward a
sustainable social, economic and environmental future as we craft our
approach as one community. The strength and success of SEE Green will
be in the ties that are built amongst Kingston's leading
organizations," says Doug Girvin, President of STANTIVE Technologies
Group and Chair of the upcoming October Summit.

Participants and co-hosts of this first summit include: the City of
Kingston, Queen's University, Stantive Technologies Group, the
Radisson Hotel, DuPont Canada, PrintFusion, DM-C Bespoke Business
Communications and AquaTerra by Clark Restaurbistro. For more
information on SEE Green visit <http://www.seegreenkingston.com (http://www.seegreenkingston.com/)>.

Businesses or organizations interested in participating in the
upcoming Summit can contact Tracy Carson at
<mailto:tracy.carson@stantive.com (tracy.carson@stantive.com)>, or 613-887-2647.

[greenland]

Greenland, Doug and I have a remedy to the damage Meat does to this planet. We VOW that ANY COW THAT POLUTES OUR AIR WITH THE GASES IT RELEASES WIL BE EATEN IMMEDIATELY. Now if we all do the same these cows won't be doing that again!!!!!


The only poluting that happens is due to transporting MEAT from OTHER COUNTRIES. Do we REALLY need New Zealand's Lamb????? etc etc. Do we really need FISH FROM CHINA?????? etc etc. Our government has almost made it impossible for us to grow our own cattle, fish our own fish, etc.

Now I will agree that it is a good thing to have various types of proteins-- Beef, PorK, Chicken, Fish, and various types of vegetables and their by-products.

So Greenland, it isn't the people who eat beef that is creating the problem it is our Government and Big Business. Maybe environmentalists should stop telling people not to eat beef but go after the people who are creating the problem.

Now I realize that you are just sharing information here with us and I thank you for that. However, i also must share my own opinion on this as well.
Businesses cater to consumer demand. So you and I can reduce the demand, can't we? Red meat is not a healthy choice for everyday eating, anyway, as most people know. Every single solitary person on this earth is responsible for creating consequences.

[Dogma]

I have no solutions except to say that I hope we never give up looking for the story behind the story. Discernment, discernment, discernment!


No it's one's critical opinion that matters here in this forum. Maybe not in your other "chat rooms".

Your obvious "immediate" or automatic "conspircay theory" search engine techniques - are NOT discering at all. They are copying other conspiracy theorist stuff!

You obviously need something, or someone else to speak for your "non- opinionated "dicerments".

HERE is A LINK ...THIS magazine - you should and will recoginize AS well.

http://www.thismagazine.ca/


COMMENTS/ SUGGESTION OF CONTENT? - WELCOME!

[greenland]

Wipe Out: Buying Safer Sponges

posted by Annie B. Bond (http://www.care2.com/c2c/people/profile.html?pid=204426917) Jun 3, 2008 12:00 pm


By Annie B. Bond, Care2 Green Living Executive Producer
Talk about an unwanted gift with purchase: Almost every sponge now sold in U.S. supermarkets is impregnated with a synthetic disinfectant—usually triclosan— that has been registered as a pesticide with the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). Not only should we be concerned about washing our dishes and counter tops with triclosan, but common disinfectants may contribute to drug resistant bacteria just like antibiotics.
Here’s what you can do:



Buy only pure cellulose sponges by avoiding sponges in packages that use language such as “kills odors.”
If your sponges exude the distinctive disinfectant smell, throw them out and search for a source of sponges made of pure cellulose.
Sterilize sponges by boiling them in a pan of water for three to five minutes, or place them in a dish washing machine and wash with a load of dishes.

[greenland]

No it's one's critical opinion that matters here in this forum. Maybe not in your other "chat rooms".

Your obvious "immediate" or automatic "conspircay theory" search engine techniques - are NOT discering at all. They are copying other conspiracy theorist stuff!

You obviously need something, or someone else to speak for your "non- opinionated "dicerments".

HERE is A LINK ...THIS magazine - you should and will recoginize AS well.

http://www.thismagazine.ca/


COMMENTS/ SUGGESTION OF CONTENT? - WELCOME!
I'm glad you posted the link to ThisMagazine. Please continue to bring your political insights to this forum.

[Dogma]

I'm glad you posted the link to ThisMagazine. Please continue to bring your political insights to this forum.



This is not an example of "political insight".

It was a point - that conspiracy theory "linked" to a the so called WW Web is not dicernable in any way from the facts.

Please remember this wise saying:

A prudent question is one-half of wisdom.

[Dogma]

I'm glad you posted the link to ThisMagazine. Please continue to bring your political insights to this forum.


The creation of a thousand forests is in one acorn.


Here - if we have to only read your web links ---

At least get us a Tee shirt ...

http://shop.cafepress.com/earth-day?cmp=KNC-G-BS-HOL-IMCED&gclid=CJXjnv-ChJYCFRJFxwod1TFrEA

[greenland]

http://planetgreen.discovery.com/

I am constantly surprised by the environmental information columns that keep popping up everywhere. The media are doing more than our politicians are doing.

[Lydia]

Exactly Greenland. That is why I am not taking things seriously. When our politicans really take an REAL stand on things, then I will start doing my part.

That is why I am also very happy that you are posting links on issues on here. Dogma and I won't agree on that, however, I for one do like it.

Even when I don't agree with the message or link, at least I can think of why I don't agree.

However, if it makes me think twice about things that is great.

[greenland]

For Immediate Release
Oct. 2, 2008, 09:30 a.m.

For further information contact:
John Giles, Manager of Solid Waste, 613-546-4291, ext. 2701;
The City of Kingston's media hotline is 613-546-4291, ext. 2300.


Residents' Input Sought On Waste Management Options
Phase B Of City's Integrated Waste Management Study Is Underway

Residents will have an opportunity to offer their thoughts on options for waste management in Kingston at an upcoming public consultation evening on Phase B of the City's Integrated Waste Management Study on Thursday, Oct. 9, in the Sail Room at Portsmouth Olympic Harbour.

The public can choose to attend two sessions: one at 4 to 6 p.m. and the other from 7 to 9 p.m.

The Integrated Waste Management Study, now in the second phase of its four-phase development, will help Kingston conserve resources, reduce environmental impacts and greenhouse gas emissions and reduce the overall dependence on landfill disposal. The public consultation sessions and a Your Opinion survey are part of the Study's Phase B during which the City and the community will evaluate alternative waste management systems and identify a preferred system to achieve the goals and objectives established in Phase A.

The Council-approved Phase A Report is available for review along with the Phase B Your Opinion survey - which will go live following the Oct. 9 public consultation - at <http://www.cityofkingston.ca/wastestudy/>. It defines Kingston's long term waste management system objectives, including the objective that Kingston should divert 65 per cent of its residential waste from landfill by 2012. One strategy for meeting this goal is a Green Bin organics program that is set to be implemented in the spring of 2009.

The comments received during the public consultation, Oct. 9 to Oct. 24, will be addressed in the Draft Phase B Report to be presented to the Environment, Infrastructure and Transportation Policies Committee for consideration. In addition to contributing at the public consultations and/or completing the online Your Opinion survey, residents may also send their comments by mail to: Solid Waste, City of Kingston, 216 Ontario St., Kingston, ON, K7L 2Z3, by email to <mailto:jgiles@cityofkingston.ca (jgiles@cityofkingston.ca)>, or fax 613-544-8466.

[Dogma]

That is why I am not taking things seriously. When our politicans really take an REAL stand on things, then I will start doing my part.

That is why I am also very happy that you are posting links on issues on here. Dogma and I won't agree on that, however, I for one do like it.


Until the money is available (which will be taxes) to put processes in place to mitigate any environmental senerio Greenland throws a link on....for N.A.

Its will not be significant in terms of real "Green" savings, in environmental infastructure terms or family incomes.

Greenland - by the time you have a family, mortgage and a vacation to Florida to Disney World...with the kids.
(I assume you will be breeding many little consumers - "naturally"?)

You will be broke from no long term work, and high taxes - ljust ike Europe. (And they lead the western world in "green".)

(I foreshadow this for (N.A) North America and over the next 20 years)

[Lydia]

Dogma, You and I both know that the reason we are not doing anything that REALLY matters for our environment is that the FAT CATS that are in our Federal and Provincial Governments are TRYING to copy what the FAT CATS IN THE USA do.

However, Thank GOD, Our group prefer to be a little leaner. The reason being is that THEY waste most of the taxes we actually do give.

If we are lucky there won't be ANY taxes for them to take. Because these KNOW IT ALLS WITH THE HEADS UP THEIR ASSETS can't take money from the people that the squeezed the taxes out off.

The jobs will be gone, Life will be simple. So simple in fact that we will ALL be on rashions. Won't be buying anything therefore no more need to worry about environment because we will have nothing.

And If we are lucky, You Dogma can cut the wood like you talked about a few years ago on here. lmao. Hell I will even start a fire like they do on Survivor. lmao lmao.

[Dogma]

Lydia - You maybe right that the Government is spending (our) taxed incomes on their incomes with little results that really "change" our lives for the better.

One idea the Green Party of Canada proposes is if MP's do not fullfill their 5 year targeted promised mandate i.e reaching Kyoto targets by 2013, the MP's have their pay cut by 30%.

All of the other so called promise to completed goals incentives the MP's have had in the past, do not work. This would certainly help to justify both our taxes going to MP's incomes and would actually contribute to reaching policies which the people of this country want to see actualy happen.

http://www.greenparty.ca/

[greenland]

Until the money is available (which will be taxes) to put processes in place to mitigate any environmental senerio Greenland throws a link on....for N.A.

Its will not be significant in terms of real "Green" savings, in environmental infastructure terms or family incomes.

Greenland - by the time you have a family, mortgage and a vacation to Florida to Disney World...with the kids.
(I assume you will be breeding many little consumers - "naturally"?)

You will be broke from no long term work, and high taxes - ljust ike Europe. (And they lead the western world in "green".)

(I foreshadow this for (N.A) North America and over the next 20 years)
You have me identified with the wrong demographic, again.

[greenland]

Dogma, You and I both know that the reason we are not doing anything that REALLY matters for our environment is that the FAT CATS that are in our Federal and Provincial Governments are TRYING to copy what the FAT CATS IN THE USA do.

However, Thank GOD, Our group prefer to be a little leaner. The reason being is that THEY waste most of the taxes we actually do give.

If we are lucky there won't be ANY taxes for them to take. Because these KNOW IT ALLS WITH THE HEADS UP THEIR ASSETS can't take money from the people that the squeezed the taxes out off.

The jobs will be gone, Life will be simple. So simple in fact that we will ALL be on rashions. Won't be buying anything therefore no more need to worry about environment because we will have nothing.

And If we are lucky, You Dogma can cut the wood like you talked about a few years ago on here. lmao. Hell I will even start a fire like they do on Survivor. lmao lmao.
I really believe that the male Fat Cats don't see the big picture, the seven generations ahead, if you will. Can it be linked to testosterone and competition? How to explain Margaret Thatcher then? hmmm

[Lydia]

Lmao Does he ever lmao lol :D:D

Let's keep him guessing lmao

[Dogma]

Sorry; I was sure you were a 20 or 30 something all heated up about some environmental disaster taking place.. that will ruin your life.

I am wrong to suggest then that you are of the child bearing years...

Its not like you reveal much other than other peoples "links".

I know Lydia - is likely past child bearing - but who's to say you are not???

[Lydia]

I know Lydia - is likely past child bearing


Yes past Child Bearing lol lol. However still a Child ar heart lmao.:D:D

[greenland]

Public Participation

The Canadian Environmental Assessment Agency encourages public participation because protecting Canada's environment is everyone's business. There are many current opportunities and ways to get involved in federal environmental assessment, through the Canadian Environmental Assessment Act.
Your participation in the federal environmental assessment process ensures an open, balanced process and strengthens the quality and credibility of environmental assessments. Also, your local and traditional knowledge about a project's physical site can help to identify and address potential environmental effects at an early stage of the environmental assessment process.
Ways to Get Involved

You can:


See current opportunities (http://www.acee-ceaa.gc.ca/011/participation_e.cfm) to participate in environmental assessments.
Visit the Canadian Environmental Assessment Registry (http://www.acee-ceaa.gc.ca/050/index_e.cfm) for information about projects taking place in your area.
Apply for funding to assist your participation, or that of your organization or group, in the comprehensive studies, mediations and review panels through the Agency's Participant Funding Program (http://www.acee-ceaa.gc.ca/010/0001/0002/index_e.htm).
Take advantage of opportunities to participate in screenings (http://www.acee-ceaa.gc.ca/010/basics_e.htm#screening), including reviewing and commenting on screening reports before a final decision is made on the project.
Examine and comment on a class screening (http://www.acee-ceaa.gc.ca/010/basics_e.htm#class) report before the Canadian Environmental Assessment Agency declares it an appropriate means to assess similar projects.
Review and submit comments during a comprehensive study (http://www.acee-ceaa.gc.ca/010/basics_e.htm#comp) process. The Minister of the Environment takes public comments into account before determining the future of a project.
Participate in any public meetings or hearings associated with a review panel (http://www.acee-ceaa.gc.ca/010/basics_e.htm#panel).

Responsible authorities (RAs) help to provide opportunities for public participation. Guidance is available under Resources for EA Professionals (http://www.acee-ceaa.gc.ca/012/newguidance_e.htm).



``````````````````
from http://www.acee-ceaa.gc.ca/011/index_e.htm



http://www.acee-ceaa.gc.ca/images/spacer.gif
http://www.acee-ceaa.gc.ca/images/spacer.gif http://www.acee-ceaa.gc.ca/images/spacer.gif http://www.acee-ceaa.gc.ca/images/spacer.gif http://www.acee-ceaa.gc.ca/images/spacer.gif http://www.acee-ceaa.gc.ca/images/spacer.gif http://www.acee-ceaa.gc.ca/images/spacer.gif

[Lydia]

http://www.acee-ceaa.gc.ca/050/index_e.cfm

I found this link extremely frustrating. You can't zero in on your own district. Hopefully they will fix that so that we can learn about what is happening in our own district.

Also the Registry wasn't working well. I could get in there to register.

At least it is exciting to see that something like this is actually happening.

Information on the Darlington Nucleur Plant was interesting

[Dogma]

Lydia -

I looked up some environmental accessments - works ok for me!

Thanks Green-land.

[Lydia]

I agree Dogma that you can looking things up and that works great. I must be mistaken but I thought that you also had an opportunity to give your concerns about issues on those topics as well. That is what I meant when I said the registry isn't working for me. Where do you login and put your views forward to the government?

[greenland]

Exactly Greenland. That is why I am not taking things seriously. When our politicans really take an REAL stand on things, then I will start doing my part.

That is why I am also very happy that you are posting links on issues on here. Dogma and I won't agree on that, however, I for one do like it.

Even when I don't agree with the message or link, at least I can think of why I don't agree.

However, if it makes me think twice about things that is great.
In today's( 07Oct'08) Ottawa Citizen, pg. A3...piece written by Joanne Laucius: you'll love this, Lydia. She reports that 230+ "academic economists" are in favour of the carbon tax. They want this entrenched in policy "because in the absence of policy, individuals generally don't take the environmental consequences of their actions into account, and the result is 'market failure' and excessive levels of pollution for all of us".
I hate waiting for the slow wheels of bureaucracy to roll......it's hard, but each of us can change right now.

[greenland]

http://www.theoildrum.com/node/3931


You'll enjoy the math.;)

[Dogma]

Ontario can obtain 100% of its grid-supplied electricity from renewable sources by 2027 if Energy and Infrastructure Minister George Smitherman adopts the recommendations in the Ontario Clean Air Alliance’s new report, Ontario’s Green Future.

The report’s three key recommendations are: build on success; take the lid off clean power; and make nuclear the last choice, not the first.

Build on success
Ontario’s Standard Offer Program for Renewable Power has been a huge success, attracting more projects in one year than the Ontario Power Authority had projected would be available in 10. It’s time to extend this simple and effective program, which pays a fixed price for each kilowatt-hour (kWh) of new supply, to energy efficiency and clean combined heat and power projects.

Take the lid off clean power
We also need to make the Standard Offer Program model more robust by removing arbitrary project size limits and raising the standard offer price to reflect the true comparative cost of obtaining power from new nuclear units and associated transmission systems.

Make nuclear the last choice, not the first
Nuclear power projects have a long history of massive cost overruns in Ontario. No other electricity generation projects, whether they be wind, water, solar or natural gas, are allowed to pass their capital cost overruns on to ratepayers and taxpayers. It is time to end this and other costly special deals for nuclear and to make nuclear projects compete fairly with other generation sources.

Ontario should pass a Nuclear Cost Responsibility Act that makes it illegal for nuclear capital cost overruns to be passed on to ratepayers or taxpayers. This will prevent any additions to the $18 billion "stranded" nuclear debt that is still being paid off by Ontario ratepayers.
The Ontario’s Green Future report can be downloaded from:
http://www.ontariosgreenfuture.ca/Ontarios_Green_Future.pdf

Please pass this message on to your friends.
Thank you.
Jessica Fracassi, Communications & Membership Director
Ontario Clean Air Alliance
402-625 Church St, Toronto M4Y 2G1
Phone: 416-926-1907 ext. 245
Fax: 416-926-1601
Email: jessica@cleanairalliance.org
Website: www.cleanairalliance.org
Website: www.OntariosGreenFuture.ca

[greenland]

http://www.greenparty.ca/en/policy/visiongreen?origin=redirect

This is what the future of politics looks like.

[greenland]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7180539.stm

Q&A: The costs of nuclear energy

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41044000/jpg/_41044894_nuclearsign203afp.jpg The nuclear question is one of the biggest facing global economies

The British government has announced plans to construct a new generation of nuclear power stations, a move which is likely to revive the long-standing debate over the cost and safety of nuclear energy.
It will also add to the gathering momentum behind nuclear power, driven by the global need to reduce carbon emissions, as well as the rising cost of gas and oil.
Here is a look at the economics of the debate.

How much does it cost to build a nuclear power station?
There are few recent examples to draw on, but a new plant being built in Finland gives some indications.
The Olkiluoto project is Western Europe's first new reactor in a decade and is expected to cost about £2.25bn ($4.5bn), but there have been serious delays there.
Other analysts put the cost of a plant at £1.5bn.
How does that compare with other types of power station?
Gas and coal-fired power stations are much *****er to build.
RWE Npower is planning a gas-fired power station in the UK for £800m.

The controversial scheme for a coal-fired power station in Kent is expected to cost about £1bn.
So is nuclear power good value for money?
Nuclear power stations are extremely expensive to build.
But if several stations are commissioned at once, then the cost should go down because of economies of scale - a sort of bulk discount.
But they will still be more expensive to build than conventional power stations. And there are fears that investment in nuclear will detract from other sources of energy - such as renewable.
So how does nuclear power compete?
Once built, nuclear power plants have advantages.
In a gas-fired plant, the gas alone makes up 80% of the cost of electricity. So firms and consumers are very exposed to the wholesale price of gas.
But at a nuclear power plant, the fuel is processed uranium, accounting for just 10% of the cost of production.
One argument given in favour of nuclear is that consumers are less likely to see huge variations in their energy bills, which have been rising in recent months.
Nuclear power also produces much lower levels of greenhouse gases and the nuclear industry wants incentives to reflect that.
What are the cost implications of nuclear power?
Germany's E.On, France's EDF, and British Gas parent company Centrica have all showed eagerness to be involved in the operation of the new nuclear sites, while French-owned Areva, the world's largest nuclear power group, said it also wanted to build up to six new plants.
Energy companies running the new nuclear power plants will have to pay the costs for decommissioning existing sites, and pay their share of waste management costs, the government has said.
The Nuclear Decommissioning Authority has said the cost will be £72bn over 20 years - up from an estimate two years ago of £56bn.
Critics, such as Greenpeace, say that the bill for building new waste dumps will be a further £21bn and then £30bn to build the new nuclear power stations.
According to its figures, this equates to just under £250 per household.
It is unclear how much of this will be passed on to consumers through, for example, higher energy bills.
But firms keen to invest in this area have strongly rejected this argument, saying they will not need any sort of extra funding.
EDF, for example, has said it is willing to invest in new nuclear power stations in the UK "without subsidy", to include all the costs of construction, operation, decommissioning and waste disposal.
But it, like other firms, has said this can only happen if the right framework is in place. Ultimately, firms will only invest if it is competitive with other forms of energy.
Some analysts say public opposition might make some investors reluctant to fund schemes that are viewed as unpopular.

[greenland]

Why unrealistic, given the progress made so far?

[Dogma]

Sorry for being so negative, but there is no current (significant investments - money) being invested in Green (or environmentally sound) long term programs.

Most of the initatives to "faze out"- coal powered hydro plants, will be replaced with nuclear plants. That's progress?

Thats same old same old as 25 years ago with Candu's.

Read link article - especially areas around bio mass, and solar, wind energy and the non investments in N.A -
that "European programs /initatives" are now being supplied 25&#37; of their energy with NOW!.

Ontario is not even looking in that direction with major feasability studies.

You will be 45 by the time something may happen!

The problem really is our energy (is still so *****)

Period.

- Until that changes dramatically.........you will be 45..

[greenland]

http://www.greenparty.ca/en/policy/carbontaxplan?origin=redirect

[greenland]

Your comments smack of ageism....I'm over 45 BTW.

What is really bugging me about the energy sector is the amt. of energy that will be required to keep the hybrid cars' batteries topped up. Does everything on this planet need to be plugged in, without a thought as to what form of energy supplies that receptacle? Reminds me of David Suzuki's rant about the fact that noone thinks of where "down the drain" goes. Actually, so many people have given up thinking. I think it's the pharmaceuticals in our water. We are soma-ed to the teeth.

[greenland]

from ww.transfair.ca




Fair Trade Towns Campaign

To become a Fair Trade Town, a community must attain a list of six goals. These goals encourage access to Fair Trade Certified products in the community, as well as increasing education and public awareness on the issue of Fair Trade.


The Six Goals of a Fair Trade Town:

1) Support from the local city council
2) Fair Trade Certified products available in shops & cafés
3) Fair Trade Certified products used and promoted in workplaces, faith groups, and schools
4) Demonstrated interest in the Fair Trade Town campaign from media and public
5) A steering group is created to ensure continued commitment
6) Promotion of other ethical and sustainable initiatives within community
The Fair Trade Towns’ campaign empowers local communities, offering citizens and advocacy groups a creative and concrete tool to promote Fair Trade within their communities. It brings together different members within a community to support Fair Trade. While it is a grassroots-led project, it is also linking communities across Canada and beyond in a common campaign.
Have a look at our Fair Trade Towns Action Kit (http://transfair.ca/sites/transfair/files/Fair%20Trade%20Towns%20Action%20Kit%20-%20FINAL.pdf) for all the details on becoming a Fair Trade Town.

[greenland]

http://www.greenpeace.org/canada/en/campaigns/oceans/what-we-do/sustainable-seafood-markets/redlist


This is Greenpeace's "Red List".

[Dogma]

Vote

I'm sure what you will be voting for "Green-land".

To bad they will only get a seat of two - but its at start!

Keep thinking (but not to much...) To much deep thought could make you the grump of the neighbourhood - "Green"-land.

[greenland]

For Immediate Release
Oct. 14, 2008, 2:30 p.m.

For further information contact:
Sue Hitchcock, Department of Community Services, 613-546-4291, ext. 1716;
The City of Kingston media hotline is 613-546-4291, ext. 2300.


Five-Bloom Winner's Garden Gets National Recognition

Joan Le Feuvre's gorgeous Cranbrook St. "Flower Jungle" was recently awarded five blooms in Communities in Bloom's residential category. Now pictures of the garden will appear in 2009 Miracle-Gro promotional materials because it won in the Large Category of Miracle-Gro Residential Garden Contest.

Photos of Le Feuvre's garden can be seen on the Communities in Bloom National website at <http://www.communitiesinbloom.ca/Articles/?aid=255>. Photos will also be published in the Communities in Bloom National Magazine.

"As my garden formed, so did the interest of the community," Le Feuvre wrote in her submission. "All ages, from babies reaching out to touch the flowers, testing their newly found sounds, to school children who made a point of stopping, appreciating, making comments, and asking questions.

There were five national finalists in the Large Category (population base of 55,001-150,000) from Oshawa, Mississauga, Edmonton, Winnipeg and Kingston. Le Feuvre's "Flower Jungle" -- so-named by a kindergarten class from a nearby school -- took top honours.

This year, Kingston maintained its five-bloom rating in the non-competitive Friendship category of the National Communities in Bloom program. Maintaining the five-bloom rating over the next couple of years will allow Kingston to qualify to enter the International Challenge in 2010.

This year the National Judges gave the City kudos, noting that: "Sustainable development is certainly at the core of the City's focus and action plans, and the judges took good note of the City's determination to become Canada's 'Most Sustainable Community'. With the wide scope of quality programs, initiatives and investment in the matter of sustainability, environmental and other, this goal is certainly in reach."

[greenland]

http://350.org/

"Global Warming. Global Action"

Grassroots action: my favourite!:D

[greenland]

Is anyone out there concerned about Canadian waters being sucked up by the U.S.?
Maude Barlow made a statement the other day hoping that our water doesn't get sold to fill Americans' swimming pools. If the U.S. starts taking our water because of a loophole in NAFTA, I'm going to be sick.
We are so oblivious to what's really important.

[greenland]

I just read a review in the Globe and Mail by Darin Barney. The book reviewed is: The Dance of Molecules: How Nanotechnology Is Changing Our Lives. Author: Ted Sargent (a Canadian by the way).

Here's the hopeful section from the review:

"For the environment, it's hyper-efficient photovoltaic cells for capturing the sun's energy and converting it into electricity, systems designed at nanoscale for the early detection and efficient filtering of hazardous substances, and molecular motors in nanomachines that turn optical energy directly into mechanical power, eliminating the need for stored fuel altogether..."

ok..so let's get on with it.

[Lydia]

You are totally correct Greenland, the factor of the USA getting to take OUR water is a concern. The Great Lakes Commission has been working on this issue for over 10 years now. It was one of their concerns as well.

The americans can actually put pipelines on THEIR side of Lakes and we could not do anything about it. However, two can play at the same game.

[greenland]

LANDFILL GAS COLLECTION NOW MANDATORY
McGuinty Government Initiative To Significantly Reduce Greenhouse Gas Emissions

NEWS
New regulations requiring all large operating landfills to put in methane collection systems will significantly lower greenhouse gas emissions in Ontario.
When these new rules are combined with the systems already in place, Ontario landfills will be reducing greenhouse gas emissions by over four million tonnes per year. That’s like taking 200,000 cars off the road every year.
The new rules require operating landfills larger than 1.5 million cubic metres to have methane collection systems in place by 2010.
The methane produced at landfill sites is a potent greenhouse gas with a global warming potential 21 times that of carbon dioxide. The landfill owners can either burn off the methane, reducing its global warming potential by 95 per cent, or use it to generate electricity to sell to the grid.
The McGuinty government has earmarked about $10 million to help municipalities pay for some of the capital costs of a methane collection system. Those that qualify for funding will be generally smaller sites, those under three million cubic metres or with limited remaining capacity. Applications for funding must be received by the ministry by November 7, 2008.
QUOTES
“Capturing landfill gas has so many benefits – to our planet, our environment and to local residents,” said Environment Minister John Gerretsen. “Not only will it help us meet our climate change goals, it will improve local air quality. Landfill gas contains trace amounts of other compounds, such as hydrogen sulphide, which can cause odours or affect local air quality.”
"We want to congratulate the government for undertaking this important climate change initiative,” said Walt Graziani, President of Integrated Gas Recovery Services (IGRS) of Cambridge Ontario. “IGRS, with our partners in the municipal and private sector have been utilizing landfill gas for years. We look forward to continuing our efforts to help protect the environment, as well as continuing to produce and sell renewable energy and emission credits from all of our Ontario facilities.”

[Lydia]

It will be very interesting to learn how they will be able to collect all this gas.

What does that really mean to people like me, and ordinary Kingstonian?? Tells us more.

[Dogma]

Applications for funding must be received by the ministry by November 7, 2008.Does not leave much time for any applications????? I wonder why....

And do you know how big 1.5 million cubic meters is????????

10 million dollars is nothing...for Ontario to capture, and produce Methane or Bio gas especially when it takes a million to convert each to "usable Bio gas. And NO (thats a lie) if you burn methane it CREATES CO2!

The best thing is to leave it in the ground! Like carbon, coal, polymers or oil! DUUUUUUH.

The suphite and water in landfill Methane cannot be extracted to Municipal "gas" standards (natural gas) to power your stove, or heat your home...without expensive "scrubbers".

This is just all politics!

Additionally; with NO "electrical" credits in this program. i.e if you turn a turbine (which you need to buy and maintain by the way) using "Bio gas" and produce electricity...and THEN put it in the grid..for general consumption..(following me so far?)

You get NO credits on your electrical bill, not even a cheque! to just maintain the turbine - for producing "natural gas"

- why would you spend with no payback??? $$$ and loss money trying???????????????????????????????????????????? ?????$

In Germany; you have 4000 bio gas plants, because there is a credit of 16 cents per KW you produce from Bio fuels - that you supply to the network.

We pay 8 cents per KW here, (*****) thus an incentive of even 4 cents would help people, or business pay for the "scrubbing" equipment to produce the Bio gas!

But,there is no such program in this announcement!

This is a political joke.

Again, Greenland please do not mislead this forum by posting such "announcements" without ANY due diligence.

No research, no knowledge on the subject, no nothing.......................... its embarrassing!

You do not in any way support, promote or inform ANY "ordinary" thought in this case... its is not truth you speaking through "links", and blips of brainless nonsence.

Sorry.

[Lydia]

Dogma stop being so hard on Greenland. All that Greenland is doing is INFORMING us about what OUR government is actually doing or planning on doing.

I personally am not in favour of GAS period. To be honest, My uncle was also very UNINFORMED about Natural Gas. He has shown me how dangerous it is to NOT UNDERSTAND this field of energy. In fact he actually killed himself, his wife, and his tenants in Toronto because he was told you could RECYCLE the fumes that go up a chimney if you redirect the vent back into the furnace. (This isn't funny but it is true). This happened in 1972.

So i can agree with you only on why people should look into this issue. This is all that Greenland is doing by posting links.

I also think that you are adding a difference in opinion on this issue as well. Both you and Greenland are actually helping people here. Greenland helps by posting links, you helping by giving us the altnerative views.

[Lydia]

http://www.ebr.gov.on.ca/ERS-WEB-External/

Hi Folks, This one i think is worth looking into. The Whig had information on this and you can give them your comments on what you would like to see done with your manufactured products that should be recycled and how the government should pay for it.

Just don't take recycling of our tax bill. We all know that they did this with our water bill. We are still paying for it whether it is included in taxes or not.

If they want to do this lets take EVERYTHING of our taxes, transportation, education, etc. (THIS I AM NOT IN FAVOUR OF BUT NEITHER AM I IN FAVOUR OF TAKING Our Water, recycling off our bills either).

If we are going to have a user-pay system then make darn sure that EVERYTHING is user pay. Who the heck are they kidding.:mad::mad:

[greenland]

http://www.thetyee.ca/News/2008/06/24/CanFootprint/?utm_source=mondayheadlines&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=300608


I just can't see us "well-to-do" folk restricting ourselves. We want what we want. If we have the cash we get what we want. What will finally shame us to stop this behaviour?

[greenland]

Does not leave much time for any applications????? I wonder why....

And do you know how big 1.5 million cubic meters is????????

10 million dollars is nothing...for Ontario to capture, and produce Methane or Bio gas especially when it takes a million to convert each to "usable Bio gas. And NO (thats a lie) if you burn methane it CREATES CO2!

The best thing is to leave it in the ground! Like carbon, coal, polymers or oil! DUUUUUUH.

The suphite and water in landfill Methane cannot be extracted to Municipal "gas" standards (natural gas) to power your stove, or heat your home...without expensive "scrubbers".

This is just all politics!

Additionally; with NO "electrical" credits in this program. i.e if you turn a turbine (which you need to buy and maintain by the way) using "Bio gas" and produce electricity...and THEN put it in the grid..for general consumption..(following me so far?)

You get NO credits on your electrical bill, not even a cheque! to just maintain the turbine - for producing "natural gas"

- why would you spend with no payback??? $$$ and loss money trying???????????????????????????????????????????? ?????$

In Germany; you have 4000 bio gas plants, because there is a credit of 16 cents per KW you produce from Bio fuels - that you supply to the network.

We pay 8 cents per KW here, (*****) thus an incentive of even 4 cents would help people, or business pay for the "scrubbing" equipment to produce the Bio gas!

But,there is no such program in this announcement!

This is a political joke.

Again, Greenland please do not mislead this forum by posting such "announcements" without ANY due diligence.

No research, no knowledge on the subject, no nothing.......................... its embarrassing!

You do not in any way support, promote or inform ANY "ordinary" thought in this case... its is not truth you speaking through "links", and blips of brainless nonsence.

Sorry.
Wow....Dogma. Ok the secret's out. I am not an engineer, a science professor, nor a journalist. ....also, rule out private investigator and undercover cop. Sorry.

[greenland]

It will be very interesting to learn how they will be able to collect all this gas.

What does that really mean to people like me, and ordinary Kingstonian?? Tells us more.

Methane gas collection system

Planning and conservation (http://www.oregonmetro.gov/index.cfm/go/by.web/id=24198) › Managing garbage and recycling (http://www.oregonmetro.gov/index.cfm/go/by.web/id=24246) › St. Johns Landfill (http://www.oregonmetro.gov/index.cfm/go/by.web/id=25126) › Methane gas collection system
A network of 188 wells and trenches and 16 miles of pipeline collect methane gas produced by decaying waste.
http://www.oregonmetro.gov/imageRepository/garbage/stjohns/methane-gas.jpg Metro has installed a network of wells and trenches and 16 miles of pipeline across the landfill to collect methane gas produced by decaying waste.

Decaying waste produces methane gas, which poses the risk of fire and explosion, particularly at sites where it is contained by a collection system, such as closed landfills like St. Johns Landfill.
To collect the methane gas, Metro installed a network of about 188 wells and trenches and 16 miles of pipeline across the landfill when the landfill cover was constructed. The gas is drawn to a compressor station from where it is pushed through two miles of pipeline to the Ash Grove Cement Company, where it is used to fuel lime kilns. Whenever the volume of gas produced by the landfill exceeds the volume used by Ash Grove, the excess gas is burned at an on-site flare facility in accordance with a permit issued by the Oregon Department of Environmental Quality. Flaring destroys pollutants in the gas. Effective gas collection significantly decreases potential hazardous conditions.

[greenland]

Methane gas collection system

Planning and conservation (http://www.oregonmetro.gov/index.cfm/go/by.web/id=24198) › Managing garbage and recycling (http://www.oregonmetro.gov/index.cfm/go/by.web/id=24246) › St. Johns Landfill (http://www.oregonmetro.gov/index.cfm/go/by.web/id=25126) › Methane gas collection system
A network of 188 wells and trenches and 16 miles of pipeline collect methane gas produced by decaying waste.
http://www.oregonmetro.gov/imageRepository/garbage/stjohns/methane-gas.jpg Metro has installed a network of wells and trenches and 16 miles of pipeline across the landfill to collect methane gas produced by decaying waste.

Decaying waste produces methane gas, which poses the risk of fire and explosion, particularly at sites where it is contained by a collection system, such as closed landfills like St. Johns Landfill.
To collect the methane gas, Metro installed a network of about 188 wells and trenches and 16 miles of pipeline across the landfill when the landfill cover was constructed. The gas is drawn to a compressor station from where it is pushed through two miles of pipeline to the Ash Grove Cement Company, where it is used to fuel lime kilns. Whenever the volume of gas produced by the landfill exceeds the volume used by Ash Grove, the excess gas is burned at an on-site flare facility in accordance with a permit issued by the Oregon Department of Environmental Quality. Flaring destroys pollutants in the gas. Effective gas collection significantly decreases potential hazardous conditions.



--from www.americanlandfill.com/design/gas.asp



````````````````````````
Does this sound safe to you? The devil is in the details, which I'm sure Dogma will be happy to give.

[greenland]

Dogma stop being so hard on Greenland. All that Greenland is doing is INFORMING us about what OUR government is actually doing or planning on doing.

I personally am not in favour of GAS period. To be honest, My uncle was also very UNINFORMED about Natural Gas. He has shown me how dangerous it is to NOT UNDERSTAND this field of energy. In fact he actually killed himself, his wife, and his tenants in Toronto because he was told you could RECYCLE the fumes that go up a chimney if you redirect the vent back into the furnace. (This isn't funny but it is true). This happened in 1972.

So i can agree with you only on why people should look into this issue. This is all that Greenland is doing by posting links.

I also think that you are adding a difference in opinion on this issue as well. Both you and Greenland are actually helping people here. Greenland helps by posting links, you helping by giving us the altnerative views.
Lydia: whew. I'm glad you "get" it.

[greenland]

Wal-Mart to source more fruits and veggies locally

Tue Jul 1, 2008 7:50am BST

Email (javascript:commonPopup('/do/emailArticle?articleId=UKN2730901520080701', 540, 600, 1, 'emailPopup')) | Print (http://uk.reuters.com/articlePrint?articleId=UKN2730901520080701) | Share
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http://uk.reuters.com/resources/r/?m=02&d=20080701&t=2&i=4978171&w=192&r=2008-07-01T065049Z_01_N27309015_RTRUKOP_0_PICTURE0 (javascript:launchArticleSlideshow();) 1 of 1Full Size (javascript:launchArticleSlideshow();)

By Nicole Maestri
NEW YORK (Reuters) - Wal-Mart Stores Inc is sourcing more produce sold in its U.S. supercenters and Neighborhood Market stores from local farmers as it tries to offset the soaring transportation costs that are driving up food prices.
The world's largest retailer said on Tuesday it had increased the number of local U.S. farmers that it works with by 50 percent in the past two years, and it would like to continue expanding that figure at a double-digit rate.
While Wal-Mart declined to provide an exact figure, it said it now works with "hundreds" of individual farmers, and this year it expects to source about $400 million in locally grown fruits and vegetables from farmers across the United States.
"When we're buying local, there are less trucks on the road, less miles that that produce is traveling and therefore less fuel," said Pam Kohn, Wal-Mart's general merchandise manager for grocery.
Wal-Mart defines "local" as buying from farmers in a state and selling the produce at stores in the same state. Over the summer months, it said locally sourced fruits and vegetables make up a fifth of the produce available in Wal-Mart stores.
Grocery is a big business for the company, accounting for 41 percent of sales in its U.S. Wal-Mart stores for its fiscal year ended January 31. As food prices rise, shoppers have been flocking to its stores in search of *****er groceries.
But soaring fuel costs mean the cost of transporting food to its 2,555 supercenters -- a full grocery store combined with a discount store -- and 138 Neighborhood Market grocery stores is more expensive, making it tougher to keep prices low.
While reporting first-quarter results in May, Wal-Mart said transportation costs would remain a "potential headwind" for the rest of the year, and Chief Financial Officer Tom Schoewe said he was worried about the ongoing jump in fuel prices.
Wal-Mart said that in the United States, produce travels an average 1,500 miles from farms to consumers' homes, and it should be able to save millions of "food miles" -- the distance food travels from farm to plate -- through local sourcing, better packing of its trucks and improved logistics.
In an example, Wal-Mart said that by sourcing peaches in 18 states instead of just two, as it did before, it saves 672,000 food miles and 112,000 gallons of diesel fuel -- or more than $1.4 million dollars in transportation costs per season.
Kohn said while the organic food trend continues, customer demand for local produce "is a very big trend, a very big trend."
(Editing by Braden Reddall)



-from Reuters
http://uk.reuters.com/article/rbssConsumerGoodsAndRetailNews/idUKN2730901520080701?sp=true

[greenland]

:D

http://www.lifewithoutplastic.com/cart/storagecont.htm

Someone commented lately in the media that it's quite ridiculous that we use plastics, which last indefinitely, to manufacture THROW-AWAY ITEMS!!

[Lydia]

This city chooses to not collect all plastics. I find it very intersting that people in other parts of the country are actually collecting these plastic items and making purses out of them. Instead of throw these items away it would be nice if people who be interested in developing items that can reusing plastics instead of creating more plastics to throw away.

[Lydia]

Geez, I wonder if our local supermarkets will follow suit? This is what I was saying a long time ago. Why can't our supermarkets place locally grown items in a designated area for people to buy our own stuff.

[greenland]

Geez, I wonder if our local supermarkets will follow suit? This is what I was saying a long time ago. Why can't our supermarkets place locally grown items in a designated area for people to buy our own stuff.
We have to approach the managers of these stores and nag them - oops, I mean ask them-to buy more local produce.

[greenland]

For Immediate Release
Nov. 13, 2008, 09:30 a.m.

For further information contact:
Sue Hitchcock, Secretary, Culture and Recreation, 613-546-4291, ext. 1716;
The City of Kingston media hotline is 613-546-4291, ext. 2300.


Media Advisory: Lights Go Up (But Not On) In City Park
---------------

Photo Opportunity: Energy-saving LED holiday lights are being hung on 45 trees in City Park:

When: Saturday, Nov. 15, 10 a.m. to 12 p.m.

Where: City Park, Barrie and King Street.

Who: Volunteers, including: Utilities Kingston staff, members of the Kingston Electric Association, Navy League Cadets and others.

What: Hanging of energy-saving LED holiday lights on 45 trees in City Park.

This Saturday morning, volunteers will be busy hanging energy-saving LED holiday lights on 45 trees in City Park in preparation for the annual Lighting of City Park event - at the end of the Jingle Bell Walk on Friday, Dec. 5. The festivities start in Springer Market Square at 6 p.m. that evening and the walk winds up at City Park for the ceremonial lighting of the trees.

Anyone wishing to sponsor the lighting of the Park's trees can still do so by calling organizer Sue Hitchcock at 613-546-4291, ext. 1716 for details. The deadline for sponsorships is Nov. 19.

[Dogma]

Baaaaa.....humbug!

[Lydia]

To Dogma; WELL NOW Merry Christmas to you too then lmao lol lol.

To Greenland: Thanks for the info.

:):)

[Dogma]

Greenland -

All I know I will have candles on my tree this year!

North America just needs to remember simpler times?

http://www.old-world-christmas.com/candleclips.html

[greenland]

Helsinki trash cans to thank bin users for not littering
http://www.terradaily.com/images/rubbish-storm-drain-garbage-bg.jpg
by Staff Writers
Helsinki (AFP) Aug 19, 2008
In an attempt to curb littering, Finland's capital will distribute rubbish bins that say "thank you" in celebrity voices when they are fed trash, city project managers said Tuesday. "We are always thinking about different ways to stop littering. And this idea is great and fun," Helsinki project manager Elina Nummi told AFP.
Four ordinary-looking talking rubbish bins will be placed around the city centre from August 22 until the end of September, she said.
A detector in the bin will activate a loudspeaker as soon as rubbish is put in, and the conscientious bin user will hear the voice of a city leader or Finnish celebrity thanking them for their effort.
The detector will also monitor the number of times a thank you message is played, and thus how many times the bin is used.
"It is great that you care about the city. Cool, isn't it?" says city mayor Jussi Pajunen in one message.
The project was drawn up by a company called Public Side as part of a broader campaign aimed at animating the capital.
"The idea is to make a thing that is considered lifeless alive," company project manager Janne Wrigstedt told AFP.
Talking trash cans have previously been used with great success in other European cities, including Berlin and in Britain, he said.
In the centre of Helsinki, the talking cans will be moved to a new location once a week.
"We hope it will encourage people to put rubbish in the bin to see if that can is the one that talks," Wrigstedt said.



``````````````````````````````
See....make anything fun and people will cooperate.

[Lydia]

Thanks Dogma, for the WARM wishes. lol lol

How what time to you want us to send the fireman to your home?? All those candles will make a wonderful glowing sight. lmao.

Then when the firemen get there, we can all sing out in joy, OH CHRISTMAS TREE, OH CHRISTMAS TREE.

I actually remember those days and the results.


:D:D:D

[Dogma]

Lydia - sounds like you’re a little traumatized from your childhood!

Don't worry about the fire brigade. We have it under control. (It would be a costly Christmas present for a niave citizen to call this service in.)

Your more than welcome to come over Christmas Eve and to "see the light" first hand. Comes with warm red wine and cookies.

Take care and best wishes to all for the season - you’re going to need it for 2009-10.

[Lydia]

Thanks Dogma for the offer.

You are 110% correct that we ALL are going to need luck 2009 -2010.

Incredible the turn of events that are taken place on the political sceen not to mention the financial one.

It does matter Dogma, You and I will be just fine. After all when you have Zero dollars you are actually a winner. Yes when you have Zip then that is all the provincial and federal governments can take from us. lmao lmao.

You have to admit it is history in the making.:p:p:p

[greenland]

The War on College Cafeteria Trays

By Maya Curry (javascript:void(0)) Monday, Aug. 25, 2008

http://img.timeinc.net/time/daily/2008/0808/tray_war_0818.jpg
William Whitehurst / Corbis







College cafeteria food is about to get a bit tougher to take — literally. This fall thousands of students will have to navigate their university dining halls without one crucial feature: the cafeteria tray.











From the University of California at Santa Cruz to Virginia Tech, cafeteria trays are disappearing, enabling universities and food-service companies to reduce food waste, lower energy costs and make college campuses more environmentally sustainable. The reasoning goes like this: when students are allowed to use trays, they tend to roam around the cafeteria grabbing food with abandon until space on the tray runs out. If you remove their trays, you make it impossible for them to carry a surplus of dishes, and they will make their selections more carefully and be satisfied with less food overall. That saves on food. Further, getting rid of trays means dishwashers have less to wash. That saves on water and energy.
"Dining facilities on campuses take up to five times more water, five times more energy, five times more waste per square foot than the dorm," says Monica Zimmer, a spokeswoman for Sodexo, a food-service company that serves approximately 600 U.S. campuses.
Exactly how much greener can a tray-banned campus get? According to a July report released by Aramark Higher Education Food Services, a dining company serving about 500 schools nationwide, students waste 25% to 30% less food when they aren't carrying a tray, and dining halls save a third- to a half-gallon of wash water per tray, on average. The University of Maine at Farmington went trayless in February 2007, reporting an overall reduction in food waste of 65,000 pounds and 288,288 gallons of water conserved. Meanwhile, Georgia Tech — which implemented a no-tray program in response to the drought of 2007 — estimated that the university saved 3,000 gallons of water per day by giving up the trays.
The push for conservation doesn't end with trays. George Mason University in Fairfax, Va., is at the fore of the sustainable-dining-hall campaign. In September, it will open Southside, a $10 million 40,000-sq.-ft., 95%-sustainable dining hall. Southside isn't a cafeteria; it's a full-service food court with takeout meals and indoor and outdoor seating — and no trays. There are several food stations to choose from — including the "Spaghettaboutit" pizza-and-pasta station and the "After All" dessert bar — and each offers its own silverware, dishes and seating area. "Without the tray, it just doesn't give you that 'I need to go everywhere and fill up my tray and then sit down' option," says Denise Ammaccapane, resident district manager at George Mason. "[Instead you're] saying, 'I like this item on the menu today. That's what I'm going to have.' "
Southside will also use eco-friendly chemical cleaners, biodegradable to-go containers, and bulk sugar and ketchup dispensers instead of disposable packets. Kitchen waste oil will be filtered and reused before being donated to biodiesel-fuel depots. Even the leftover food on students' plates will do double-duty. Food scraps and biodegradable napkins will be washed into a contraption called the pulper, where they will get, well, pulped. The resulting slurry will be pumped to the first-floor extractor, in which it is dehydrated and turned into a material resembling sawdust. The remaining "food dust" is then dumped into a biodegradable trash bag to be consolidated in a trash compactor, then hauled to a commercial facility that sends the scraps to a composting yard.
"That's how we get to as close to 0% waste as possible," says Zimmer of Sodexo, which provides George Mason's dining services.
Indeed, doing away with lunch trays is just one piece of a grander scheme to make dining halls and campuses carbon neutral. Schools have begun buying organic and locally grown foods, for example, or sometimes growing food right on campus. At the University of Maryland, there's a tomato and herb garden atop one of the dining facilities; it was planted to generate interest in local and sustainable farming, and is watered in part using runoff from refrigerator condensation.
The green message gets broadcast in a variety of ways: at Claremont-McKenna College in California, students erected a giant Pyramid of Waste — a stack of Styrofoam to-go containers — designed to encourage students to eat in. "Fundamentally, I think consumers have to understand that some of the responsibility lies with them to create less waste," says Helene York, director of Bon Appétit Management, a company that has been dedicated to sustainable food initiatives at colleges nationwide since 1999. "If we create less waste, we don't even have to consider a need for back-end technologies [like the pulper]."
To York, eliminating cafeteria trays is just one tactic to address the issue of food waste; reducing the size of serving dishes and portions, she says, might be just as effective. As part of its Low Carbon Diet program, launched in April, Bon Appétit has challenged all 80 of its accounts to reduce food waste by 25% by April 2010. The company provides the educational material and lets its colleges decide how it should be implemented.
Not every school can afford to build sustainable eateries from scratch, and not every school can even get rid of trays. Many colleges run up against common infrastructural and cultural barriers — such as cafeteria washroom rollers that can't easily accommodate plates that aren't on trays, or campus residents who just can't get on board with a tray-free lunch. At some schools, like Middlebury in Vermont, trays were simply removed, and administrators let the grumbling subside. But at most other colleges, the movement has been grounded in community discussion on sustainability concepts — so students and faculty are on board with the idea. Says Chris Stemen, senior director of sustainability and environmental stewardship at Aramark: "Part of why you're [at college] is for the learning environment — new mindset, new habits, new ideas."

[greenland]

Thanks Dogma for the offer.

You are 110% correct that we ALL are going to need luck 2009 -2010.

Incredible the turn of events that are taken place on the political sceen not to mention the financial one.

It does matter Dogma, You and I will be just fine. After all when you have Zero dollars you are actually a winner. Yes when you have Zip then that is all the provincial and federal governments can take from us. lmao lmao.

You have to admit it is history in the making.:p:p:p
Our "exciting" partisan politics crisis made the John Stewart show..."Provinces in Peril" on the Comedy Network.

[greenland]

John Ralston Saul, in “The Unconscious Civilization,” wrote “The most
powerful force possessed by the individual citizen is her own
government. ... Government is the only organized mechanism that makes
possible that level of shared disinterest known as the public good.”

[greenland]

Practice? Preach? Both?

Erin Craig | September 2, 2008
Psychological research suggests greens may need to modulate their message to reach the mainstream.


http://www.terrapass.com/images/blogposts/scold.jpg A few of our recent blog (http://www.terrapass.com/blog/posts/bike-beautiful) posts (http://www.terrapass.com/blog/posts/a-blender-that-runs-on-milk-and-bananas) have ignited micro-firestorms among our readers. We are thrilled to have readers with such diversity of opinion and even more gratified that they choose to spend time making comments. We have pretty thick skins here at TerraPass and we take sharp criticisms as heartfelt expressions rather than personal attacks, so keep ‘em coming.
The firestorms make me wonder, though, about the effectiveness of strident advocacy as a tool for bringing about a greater sense of stewardship across the general population. At the American Psychological Association’s meeting earlier this month, several papers were presented which examined links between “sustainable” behavior patterns and various external stimuli. USA Today summarized some of this research here (http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/environment/2008-08-13-green-psychology_N.htm).
One study (http://forms.apa.org/convention/participant.cfm?session=825) in particular examined the effect of negative feedback on people’s inclination to take action later on. They used an ecological footprint calculator jury-rigged to provide distinctly negative or positive results, then asked people to write a letter on any topic at all, to a politician.
Interestingly, people who entered the study with environmental values were more likely to take positive action after receiving negative feedback about their practices than if they received positive feedback; if they were told their footprint didn’t look so good, they wanted to take action. Conversely, the less-environmentally inclined did just the opposite. Negative feedback made them react negatively, positive feedback inspired positive action.
Since our blog readers tend to be environmentally inclined (http://www.terrapass.com/blog/posts/our-survey-says-terrapass-customers-still-really-do-care), it’s no surprise we see a lot of criticism in our blog comments; our readers are trying to inspire action, and apparently criticism works for people like us.
But the same criticisms may have an opposite effect on the sizable population that isn’t already standing in the choirbox. Are we doing ourselves a disservice with our bumper stickers, our environmental license plates, our occasionally self-righteous attitudes, our not-so-subtle jabs that scream, “Whatever you’re doing, it’s not enough!”
We have a big mountain to move here. Lots of behaviors need to change. Personally, I try not to proselytize too much, at least with adults. In my spare time, I work with a local non-profit (http://evols.org/) which provides hands-on environmental education to grade-school kids, and at that age, we don’t need hard-core advocacy: they believe what we teach them. Maybe it isn’t enough, but I do sleep well at night.

[greenland]

Apple Unveils 'Cleanest' iPod Yet


Jobs Also Announced a New Update to Fix iPhone Problems


By KI MAE HEUSSNER
Sept. 9, 2008
http://a.abcnews.com/images/Site/byline_abcnews.gif

(http://www.abcnews.go.com/Technology/comments?type=story&id=5763355)

FONT SIZE http://a.abcnews.com/assets/images/font-sm_off.gif (javascript:void(0);) http://a.abcnews.com/assets/images/font-md_on.gif (javascript:void(0);) http://a.abcnews.com/assets/images/font-lg_off.gif (javascript:void(0);)



In a highly anticipated event today in San Francisco, Steve Jobs unveiled a new iPod Nano that he said was Apple's "cleanest" and most "toxic free" yet.

A new line of iPods is unwrapped today by CEO Steve Jobs.


(http://www.abcnews.go.com/Technology/GadgetGuide/popup?id=3322715)

For environmentalists who have been campaigning against "e-waste" for years, this is a sign of progress.
The Apple chairman and CEO said the new Nanos use arsenic-free glass, are free of BFR, mercury and PVC and are highly recyclable.
"This is great news," said Casey Harrell, a toxics campaigner for Greenpeace International. "They've been moving this way on the design side of their products."
In 2004, Greenpeace started targeting the technology company with a "Green My Apple" e-waste campaign. When Jobs publicly committed to creating more environmentally sustainable products in the spring of 2007, Greenpeace dropped the campaign.
Harrell said Jobs agreed that, starting Jan. 1, 2009, the company would create products free of BFR (brominated flame retardants) and PVC (polyvinyl chloride).
Related
http://a.abcnews.com/images/icaught/AP_IPHONE4_080711_mc.jpg (http://www.abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=5719561&page=1)IPhone 3G Problems Draw Second Lawsuit (http://www.abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=5719561&page=1)

http://a.abcnews.com/images/icaught/AP_IPHONE4_080711_mc.jpg (http://www.abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=5617800&page=1)Apple Hit With 3G iPhone Lawsuit (http://www.abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=5617800&page=1)

http://a.abcnews.com/images/Technology/atm_techbytes_080819_mc.jpg (http://www.abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=5608789) WATCH: iPhone 'Fixes Bugs' (http://www.abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=5608789)


"They're beating their deadline, hopefully," he said, adding that Greenpeace will still be watching to make sure that subsequent iPhones, MacBooks and desktop towers will be as clean.
Independent analyst Rob Enderle said Apple's new announcement signals that the company is "finally stepping up and starting to embrace the green movement."
"This was a huge embarrassment, continually highlighted by Greenpeace," he said, adding that the situation looked even worse because former Vice President Al Gore is a member of Apple's board of directors.
Despite this victory for environmentalists, analysts said the presentation included few surprises.
"[There was] no revolution," said James McQuivey, a principal analyst with media research firm Forrester Research. "There's obviously evolution in that the devices are moving to a better experience, but there's nothing here that changes the game."
"Anyone expecting Apple to make any move that would dramatically alter the field would be disappointed."
Avi Greengart, an analyst with Current Analysis, also said that many of the features Jobs revealed today had already been seen on rumor blogs.

[greenland]

A Greener Oil Change
September 2008
Read this issue of Greentips online (http://ucsaction.org/ct/mpSVf3K1LSjo/)

A regular oil change can improve your car’s fuel economy and minimize its air pollution and global warming emissions. But what about the environmental impact of that oil change if it is not done right? According to the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), nearly 200 million gallons of used motor oil are improperly disposed of in the United States each year. The oil from just one oil change can contaminate one million gallons of water—a year’s supply for 50 people.
If you are a do-it-yourself oil changer, the EPA has provided the following guidelines to ensure the process is as clean as possible:


After draining the oil, but before removing the drip pan from under the car, close and secure the drain plug and check for leaks.


If you are changing the oil filter, drain it for a minimum of 12 hours into a clean plastic container with a tight-fitting lid (do not use a container that once held chemicals, food, or beverages). Then, carefully pour the oil from the drip pan into the container.


Reuse your drip pan; do not rinse residual oil down the drain or into your yard.


If you do accidentally spill any oil, use absorbent material like sawdust or cat litter to clean the spill, then dispose of it in the trash.

Used motor oil (from cars, trucks, boats, motorcycles, or lawn equipment) can be recycled to make new motor oil—2.5 quarts of new lubricating oil can be made from one gallon of used motor oil—or processed into fuel oils or other materials. After you have changed your oil, take it to a local service station or recycling center that collects used motor oil for recycling (see related links for a recycling directory). Some facilities will collect used filters as well; if not, ask your waste collection service if the filter can be disposed of with your household trash.
You may be able to further reduce your oil consumption (regardless of whether or not you do your own oil changes) by changing your oil less often. A 2008 study conducted by the California Integrated Waste Management Board shows that many vehicles can go more than the standard 3,000 miles between oil changes, depending on driving conditions and motor oil type. Before you skip your next oil change, however, be sure to follow your car manufacturer’s recommendations listed in the owner’s manual.

[Lydia]

I don't think i will be using an ipod soon. If the maker doesn't make it a priority to put in a virus checker, or anti spam program in it, it isn't worth using.

You might enjoy it for games only but never use it as a place to keep your e-mails or anything that is important to you.

This was mentioned on the television broadcast on this device just this week.

[Dogma]

Used motor oil (from cars, trucks, boats, motorcycles, or lawn equipment) can be recycled to make new motor oil—2.5 quarts of new lubricating oil can be made from one gallon of used motor oil—or processed into fuel oils or other materials. After you have changed your oil, take it to a local service station or recycling center that collects used motor oil for recycling (see related links for a recycling directory). Some facilities will collect used filters as well; if not, ask your waste collection service if the filter can be disposed of with your household trash.
You may be able to further reduce your oil consumption (regardless of whether or not you do your own oil changes) by changing your oil less often. A 2008 study conducted by the California Integrated Waste Management Board shows that many vehicles can go more than the standard 3,000 miles between oil changes, depending on driving conditions and motor oil type. Before you skip your next oil change, however, be sure to follow your car manufacturer’s recommendations listed in the owner’s manual.


Green-land unfortunately this is NOT relevent information for most who live in Canada.

Most "motor" oils we use and recycle already are CSA standard oils specialized for our Canadian climate (not California) who use thicker or less viscosity oils because of the regional weather/temperature.

Canadian cars, and /or motorized vehicles & bearing lubes ..
are all recyclable here...infact synthetic oils are become more common - because of its stability in cold/hot uses.

Most auto oil changes & oil management programs are done by the car owners mechanics, or specialty oil change shops, whom have recycle programs in place and are Government regulated.

There is little or no oil being thrown into Canadian lakes or streams or brownfield senerio's of the 1950's!

Again - you seem to be "theorizing" again and misleading the general public with "doom's day" data - not even relevent to this country!

[Lydia]

Dogma, thanks for letting people know about the synthetic oil. You are 100% correct. I have been using it only and i am very impressed with how clean this oil is compared to the regular oil.

Althought it is more expensive, in the long run it is actually *****er and better for the automobile.

[Dogma]

$45,000 x 12 percentage for the Invista Center is the revenue for the sale of bottled water. (per year)

There is a 4 year contract in place with the vendor

Should it be banned?

Should it be encouraged?

Ravensview - (Water Treatment Plant) costs = $125,000,000

12 tons per year x $85 per ton of waste x $150.00 processing from water bottles.

Potable drinking water - we use...

London, Waterloo, Toronto & Ottawa are banning or are considering..

What do you thin about this current City motion?

[Lydia]

I attended a meeting tonight at Council meeting and I have to admit there were good and bad points for and against this issue.

However, I hate to admit it but I finally agree with Harvey Rosen on this one.

PEOPLE CHOICE. should rule.

I hate BANS but as Harvey indicated tonight that we need to teach people a better way of getting the water. Lets tell them why our City Water from our taps is better and let them choose for themselves

Dorothy Hector kept telling everyone to think about how our tax money is being used on this subject and also reminded us of how much money will be lost by this ban. She is 100% correct.

Bottled water was stressed as a HEALTH CHOICE according to our city's policies. That one will be hard to overcome by the people who want to ban bottled water.

Having said that, Stever Garrison's comment that this ban is going to be only at City Owned Establishments. He indicated that water taps or containers should be available throught the establishments. He is also 100% correct. Some people can not afford bottled water. He also indicated that our landfills are full of this plastic as well.

I have to admit that i personally prefer the city water from the taps. The reason i prefer it is because of the residue that plastic leaves in the water when it is there for a long time.

However, i understand full why people don't trust government when it comes to the purity of our water supply. It doesn't feel comfortable knowing how things drift on to Wolfe Island from time to time. I don't like trusting our water treatment plant even though I did attend a workshop on this matter presented by Utility Kingston's Jim Keech several years ago on this exact matter. I have to admit that it was very well done and I feel safe enough though i don't WANT to trust his presentation

I have to agree with Mayor Harvey on this one. I want choice not BAN because of the above reasons.

Every Councilor at the table made excellent points and they are taking this issue quite seriously. I hope everyone of us gets a chance to discuss this issue at a public meeting because it is a serious one despite my wanting to dismiss it. I hope everyone will contact their councilor on this and give their point of view. Let's help them out folks on making the correction decision.

So Thanks Dogma for bringing this one up for discussion.:D

[Dogma]

Lydia -

If you were at the meeting you must have been the attractive lady behind Mr. Gerrisen ! Nice to put a face to a chat room.

Anyways; as you are aware the "procedure" and many motions on the bottled water and other agenda items, i.e wrapping paper was rather unprofessional. Some good ideas come out of these discussions but there was some lude comments..(what was that about Hutchinson being called a lier?) Or the rural councillor thinks that a ban is on wrapping gifts???

Hector going on about bylaw 9.9 for "proposed" policy verses budget impact was also child like. I understand she is "concerned" regarding budget impacts to implement a policy, but she misses the point because it was tabled as a "proposal" to look at... NOT a bylaw.

Her argument(s) in every case and the delivery was a clear sign of poor interpersonal skills. I really hope she is feeling better from her illness, but to just come back and to start ramming her ideas with anodotal surveys seemed pretentious on camera, and made Hector seem rather cold, or unwilling for compromising - or just a simple personality. I am sure she is not but her delivery of "the message" was chilling.

I guess I miss alot on TV. But, that was the impression.

[Lydia]

Now I was the ""PRETTY"" LADY on the other side of the room. lol lol.
I agree with you that these motions were NOT presented in a professional way. It almost feels to me that these motions are being brought up at council with the hope that the public gets no input into whether the public wants it or not. Now some councilors are fully supportive in having Public input on issues and I agree with that side. Simply due to the fact that these motions should not be place at the council table unless advisotry committees had a chance to really discuss them. Money should not be wasted on motions but should be used in council on REAL PROPOSALS. Motions to me are someone else's ideas and Council should not be the place for them.

Only one motion should be put before council and that is one where it asks them to discuss the topics.

There were good ideas on both side of issues the pros and cons and that is what is needed at the Advisory Committee Meetings FIRST.

I have to admit that sitting in the audience that I personally didn't hear Hutchinson being called a lier. However I agree council meetings should NOT be the place to do that. UNLESS you can prove your point.

I felt the same way about Dorothy Hector, she did seem very icy. I didn't understand her position on budget impacts. However, I do agree that things should not be passed at council WITHOUT budgetary impact being fully known.

[Dogma]

Never said "pretty" I said attractive...

But in any case your a good soul....


I felt the same way about Dorothy Hector, she did seem very icy. I didn't understand her position on budget impacts. However, I do agree that things should not be passed at council WITHOUT budgetary impact being fully known.

All I know is why is Kingston trying to "reinvent the wheel" - WHY has no one looked into Waterloo, or London's - public proposals, methods and results (best practices) with regards to their bottled water reduction initatives?????

It always amazing (with Garrison) (always "good intentions" with half baked ideas, motions) with no solid research...

Always with him -"do-gooder" running... with something before they even know what they are getting into!

Frankly; in the long run one needs to do some background research - (for their motions/arguments in Chamber)
- it saves, time, money, misinformation and public upset, and passes with stronger support in council!

And has a better chance to actually happen on time and on budget!

Garrison - he is a nice, well meaning man. His ideas and delivery just need more thought put to them.

[Lydia]

Frankly; in the long run one needs to do some background research - (for their motions/arguments in Chamber)
- it saves, time, money, misinformation and public upset, and passes with stronger support in council!


Holy Cow Dogma, YOU DO THINK LIKE I DO. lmao. Now you know what I have been talking about for YEARS on here. that is EXACTLY why i get kicked off.

I will fully support council if they truly do exactly that.

[Lydia]

Althought i agree that we should do as much as possible to recycle what we are ALLOWED to, I agree with Dorothy's take on the COST of this project.

At first i really thought that they were banning Christmas Paper and i got upset because I am the type of person who would like that to be recycled NOT BANNED. However when council is considering ALL WRAPS then I think they are just a little off-their-rocker.

Educate people how to wrap presents WITH WHAT YOU CALLED ENVIRONMENTALLY WRAPS BEFORE BANNING what is being used. Also I would like to know if Council knows of any wrapping paper that is recycleable.
If there is then educate us so that we can start using before BANNING the wraps we are using now.

I guess the people who are trying to BAN EVERYTHING want to live in a police state. There are other countries THEY could move to if they don't like it here. Bans never work, education does. That is why I like Greenland's posting. Even though I may not agree with them, at least Greenland is doing something all the other environmentalist are not doing. That is informing us of what is being thought about and we get to learn what others are doing.;)

[Dogma]

I use old newspapers to wrap or last years paper as much as possible.

Special eh? :rolleyes:

[Civic]

Food for thought...

Ethical Living: Recycle

The eco-australia blog has put together a helpful checklist for maximizing your recycling and reducing the amount you put into landfills.

As you purchase or shed items you could consider the following checklist to see if you can find a home for your old stuff before putting it in the bin:


Can it be recycled?
Can it be composted?
Can it be donated?
Can it be sold/traded?
Can it be given away free to a friend or neighbour?
Can I use it for something else?
Can I make it into something else
Where is the best/safest place to dispose of it (if it is dangerous to the environment e.g. paints)?


Local Kingston resources for 'rehoming' your old stuff include Freecycle:

http://www.freecycle.org/group/CA/Ontario/Kingston

[Lydia]

Civic thanks for your posting. I agree with you fully on this. Let's find ways to use what we have, fix what we have, share what we have. This is totally what I am for. Banning isn't the way to do things. Educating people how to do the things you mentioned in your posting is exactly what is needed. If that was truly done i would say that we could reduce your landfill about 50% or more. Thanks for sharing.

[Dogma]

I would suggest instead of buying "stuff" ...so then you need to "recycle it"...

Don't buy so much stuff !!!

Don't buy a new house, by a used or recycled one.

Don't buy a larger car.

Do not ask for plastic bags at the store, carry cloth bags, basket...

Buy only recyclable products.

Do not buy things that are transported from long distances.

Turn off the lights when you leave a room, change all the bulbs to low voltage.

Use local suppliers, services

Use the car less, and when you do plan for the most efficient route.

Take the train or bus.

[Lydia]

Heck with that. I say DON'T MAKE IT AND I WON'T BUY IT lmao lmao.

Come on how Dogma, women buy!!!!!! Well at least I do. lol

All the stuff you mentioned is true. boring but true. However, I wish that the environmentalists would get off their high horse and get the Government to order the Manufacturers to create RECYCLABLE products.

A show on TV this past Sunday was called "Addicted to Plastic"

If they can make a PLASTIC CUP out of corn and a PLASTIC PLATE out of chicken feathers which can be decomposed and eaten. ( NO I AM NOT ON DRUGS) I actually saw the products. Then why the hell can't these plastic companies really do the right thing and create DEGRADABLE products that can be recycled.

[Dogma]

Did you know that Henry Ford in the 1940's made a totally recycled car out of soya fibre? No one bought it!

There are so many regulations, laws now - (industry driven and publicly driven) that we cannot get out of or undo such environmental issues:

- Packaging, school buses, old electrical grid, poor housing construction, energy use.

School buses - why do we have them for the city schools?

Would it not be environmentally friendlier and healthier to have children walk to school?
- and frankly they get in my way!

People just get use to what they have always had. It hard to change what you are use to.
Marketing also reinforces the "American way" of life.

We don't even turn our cars off when a train is crossing ...we sit there for 5 minutes with our cars/trucks running!

Canadian's still use the highest amount of energy per capita. (Go figure)

We "say" that we are for environmental and energy saving...but we do little about it. Especially when it cost money!

[Lydia]

Which? Buses or Children?? lmao

Actually Dogma, i agree with you fully on this one. Why not incorporate our public bus system with the school buses. Allowing the children to have certain hours that they have the buses to themselves for an hour in the morning and one in the afternoon. I am sure US old folks can arrange our schedules around that.

If children want to use the public buses other times then they will just have to put up with us old folks. RIGHT???

Could save us tax money since we are using taxes on both public and school busing.

:D

[Civic]

As of possible interest...

Queen's Campus News:

Unbottle it!

Wednesday January 14, 2009

Maude Barlow of the Council of Canadians and Sid Ryan of CUPE will present Unbottle It! - Kick the Bottle and Tap into Public Drinking Water, on Tuesday Jan. 20, as part of a 15-city tour across Ontario to share the facts on safe public drinking water and to dissuade the use of bottled water, which poses an environmental threat. The talk takes place in Dunning Auditorium at 7 pm. All are welcome to attend. Admission is free.

http://qnc.queensu.ca/campusnews_article_loader.php?id=496e3dc064f5d

[Dogma]

Good idea Lydia - I never thought of that. Would it not be good for the community old and young to mix on a bus every day?

Saves the environment to.

Although the parents groups, and bus unions would never go for it.

To many social "risks" will be their agrument!

- God forbid kids get a dose of reality!

And even have the option to WALK to school.

[Lydia]

The following article is located on the Kingston Whig's Letters to the Editor section.



Sydenham's water treatment plant

Ian MacAlpine/The Whig-Standard


Sydenham water project leaves a bad taste
Posted By
Posted 11 hours ago


Many Kingston-area residents have heard about the infamous Sydenham water plant. Here is what it feels like to be one of the people on the "faucet end" of this debacle.

The original estimate was that the plant would cost $5.8 million, with the township paying $870,000. The final cost was $7.6 million, and the cost to the township and the people was approximately $2.4 million.

The hookup costs (the costs to connect from the property line to your basement) are estimated to have been an additional $1 million; in our case, it took $5,000 to drill through 40 feet of rock. The annual operating costs are $500 per household, which is not sufficient to cover operating and replacement costs in the long run.

Adding insult to injury, the plant was mistakenly designed to be over twice the size we need because the engineer didn't use local regional water consumption patterns to estimate properly, in spite of that data being readily available.

From the beginning, an estimated 92% of the people of Sydenham told council not to build this plant but to use point-of- entry purification instead. Then the province did a study that recommended new water and sewage plants should be built for no less than 10,000 customers because they are not economical. Sydenham has a new plant for about 300 customers.

Okay, we shouldn't have built the plant in the first place, it's outrageously expensive, it will get even more expensive over time and it is over twice the size we need. But the plant is in and we have to live with (and pay for) it. Except that the water plant has been running for 28 months and can't produce water that meets the provincial drinking water standard.

At first we were told to use more water to solve the problem. It turns out the problem arises not from lack of use but is in the plant itself. So who is responsible, and who is paying for this unmitigated disaster?

You would think that for $7.6 million, the engineer would have done extensive testing of the lake water over time and designed a system that could produce water within the government standards. You would also think the Ministry of Environment would prevent what happened from happening.

How did this happen? We are told that the engineer made mistakes, the ministry approved it all, public health encouraged the township to put the plant in and the township made the decision to build it. And 92% of the people said don't do it.

So who do you think is going to pay the estimated additional $1.4 million needed to fix this apparent design flaw? The engineer? The Ministry of Environment? Kingston, Frontenac and Lennox and Addington Public Health? Or the people?

If you guessed the people, you guessed right. Would you like a glass of water to help wash that bad taste from your mouth? Wait -that wateristhe bad taste. David Waugh

[Lydia]

Harvey Rosen is 100% correct when it comes to the idea of allowing people the CHOICE of how THEY GET THEIR DRINKING WATER.

Now we have the Good, the Bad, and the UGLY of this topic. Unless council understand that they are not GOD and can't control WATER, Just maybe Choice is the way to go UNTIL the so called EXPERTS get together and REALLY DO THE WORK OF making our water safe and that the way water is brought to the consumer is also safe.

This is the reason I HATE BANS. Choice rules.

[Lydia]

I'm sorry just noticed the following Whig's article on an outage


Outage causes sewage spill
Posted By JENNIFER PRITCHETT, WHIG-STANDARD ENVIRONMENT REPORTER
Posted 14 hours ago


The city of Kingston purged roughly 10 million litres of partially treated sewage into Lake Ontario on Tuesday night when a lengthy power outage caused equipment to stop working at the Ravensview sewage treatment plant.

Yesterday, Utilities Kingston president Jim Keech said the backup power system for the retrofitted plant wasn't up and running.

"The generators are there and we were hoping that they would have been able to operate [during Tuesday's power outage]," he said.

"Unfortunately, they didn't and we are actually working through that right now with a contractor and a consultant."

The facility's $116-million upgrade is expected to be completed by May or June.

The plant, located off Highway 2 along Lake Ontario, upgraded from basic sewage treatment to the more environmentally friendly secondary treatment process last fall.

It was that secondary process that failed during Tuesday's power outage.

Keech said he wasn't completely surprised the backup generators didn't kick in when the power went out because Utilities Kingston is still in the process of testing the new equipment.

"If this would have been six months from now as opposed to [Tuesday], there would have been practically no impacts on the process," he said.

The sewage bypass started at 3:15 p. m. on Tuesday and til 10:30 p. m.

Utilities Kingston also kept extra staff on duty overnight in case the power went out again.


I wonder if the Ban on Bottled Water will take place at this time????

[Dogma]

I expect it took a couple years for people to realize they where in a depression in the 1930s.

If we are heading to one now, we won't know for sure until it is too late, which we why act aggressively to avoid one even if we are not sure. The same principle applied to global warming.

Here are a couple of things to watch for:

Wage cuts as part of the auto bail out, which could trigger wide spread wage cuts, which could cause a deflationary spiral.

Abandonment of the US dollar, especially if China decouples it's currency. This is what people who have been worried about a depression for years thought would trigger it.

[Lydia]

I think the new buzz word for the economy now is CHINAMERICA. China's loaning America money/economy.

I agree Dogma, before anyone will even realize it we have been in a depression now for over a year and we don't seem to know it. Oh the economist say we are in a recession. Hell we have been in a recession now for over 2 years and they still are not honest with us.

Okay the sub-prime has taken down the house values and the banks are owning all the real estate in the states. They have not even begun dealing with the repossession of the big ticket items yet.

Look out for the people who are defaulting on their Visas next. Only then will we really see rock bottom and when the dust settles, only the people who don't OWE anyone anything will survive.

The nice thing about the poor Dogma is this. They have NOTHING to loose. Their's is already gone.

Keep in mind Dogma, the idea of a WORLD currency will be established. It is called poverty. lmao. After all we only have to look at the global markets and countries to see how people are really paid. I think however it history, we called people slaves.

However, we have been here in history before and we survived. People will do it again.

[Dogma]

I saw a show last night I.O.U.U.S.A on the passionite eye, and a show on future trends that will influence the "global economy" and Western culture.

Basically, they were speaking to 3 (three) things that the next president needs to know:

1) Energy Policy - Global Warming
2) Stem cell research
3) Credit, financing, social service

I.O.U -

America owes 4-7 trillion (or 64% of GDP)
China holds 400 billion in credit/loans
US consumer is in debt (personal) average $ 100,000 - $ 200,000 per person
Recession will create 6 million unemployed in US - or almost 9%
(depression it was 20%) but there were much less people...

Social spending, health care, pensions (baby boomers) going forward will create more debt...in the next 20 years.

Germany has been bumped to 4th place - for export $ (and has the oldest population growth in the EU)
China is now 3rd
Japan - 2nd
USA - 1st

Canada - business with USA is worth 1 (one) billion a day.
- Mostly oil and gas, auto and forestry/minerals. They are our number one trading partner.
- (almost 30-40% of our total GDP)

If nothing is done in 20 years - the USA debt will multiply by 10 times.
- they could not pay their bills to us or anyone.

Bottled Water:

So, if you wish to spend time on banning water bottles, or debating policy on street hockey or Lake Ontrio Park...

-not doing anything.. or even debating at home about our debt, let alone the US debt

- you have misplaced ones citizens priorities in life.

This is the last generation that will see good pensions, financial means and owning ones home,
and to have the "American dream". (1950 - 2020) dead at 70.

Greed and niave North Americans:

The Chinese know what it feels like to have no money.
Thats why they save alomost 50% of their salaries for a "rainy day".

Canadians only save 3%.

[Lydia]

Wow, you hit a the points that we should all consider. You are totally correct Dogma, people don't know how to save or even WHERE to save.

Where can people gather together and just TALK with each other about finance without having to PAY for expert advise from a Financial Advisor.

They certain did a good job, Did they????? (NOT) Okay some did but very few have.

Take a look at the new TAX FREE SAVING ACCOUNT in various banks. Take a look at the following link--
http://specials.en.sympatico.msn.ca/finance/calculators/TFSAvsNonTFSA.aspx

Tell me how can someone who is just starting out in life can SAVE.

Dogma, you and I both know how. Unfortunately most people are scared to death of dealing with finance. Until that changes and our Government changes things to make it easier to SAVE we will be in this spot for a long long time.

My motto: IF YOU HAVE NOT MONEY. consider yourself well off. Yes because ""THEY"" CAN'T TAKE ANYTHING FURTHER AWAY FROM YOU. Then ""THEY"" become LIKE US. Poor and scared.

This is what happens when you take away people's dreams of becoming better off then they were before. This is what happens when society couldn't care less about the weakest of us.etc etc etc.

So I guess we go to China and the ""THEY"" START to drain them like they did us.

[Lydia]

Soglad you came aboard. You sound like an eager beaver and very interested in our Environment. You have mentioned many topics.

Although I am not an Environmentalist, I am willing to discuss a topic on anything environmental issue.

Let us be willing to agree to disagree and I will gladly help try to find solutions to any issue.

Pick an issue that you think is most important for the residents in this city to be willing to adopt or change.

[Lydia]

Bring Home Made Posters! Bring Noise Makers! Bring Friends! Walk with MARGARET ATWOOD to SAVE CANADA’S PRISON FARMS





MEDIA RELEASE MAY 31, 2010

MARGARET ATWOOD TO JOIN PRISON FARM MARCH

Save the Prison Farms action plan to be posted on CSC's door

KINGSTON, ONTARIO – On Sunday, June 6, Margaret Atwood will join citizens of all ages and political stripes for a march to the Correctional Service of Canada’s (CSC) Ontario headquarters. Once there, they will post their action plan for saving and revitalizing Canada’s six prison farms on the door.

“Sixteen months of public events, letters, petitions, delegations, and parliamentary motions have gathered almost unanimous support across the country for Canada’s prison farms,” said Dianne Dowling, National Farmers Union Local 316 President. “Yet the federal government is plowing ahead with its wrong-headed plan to shut down the prison farms.”

“Heritage dairy herds, which provide milk for inmates in at least three provinces are slated for dispersal,” added Dowling. “As one of our supporters has said, dispersing the herd is like wiping out an entire extended family.” The first sale is scheduled for Kingston’s Frontenac Institution during the week of June 21.

“By marching on CSC headquarters on June 6, Canadians will be sending a clear message to our government,” said Andrew McCann, of Urban Agriculture Kingston. “And that message is -- you have to stop ignoring the will of the majority.”

Margaret Atwood, one of Canada’s most articulate and visionary champions of environmental issues, is joining the Save Our Prison Farm Campaign to take it to a new level.

“At a time when world attention is focusing on looming food shortages linked to climate change, and when countries such as England are re-organizing to provide more food self-sufficiency, the government of Canada is making exactly the wrong move,” explained Atwood.

“It is also sending a clear signal to individual farmers all across Canada that it does not respect what they do. These prison farms reflect Canadian values. Most Canadians would rather have prisons produce skilled inmates than repeat offenders – and they are increasingly supporting a vision of a future in which communities contribute to their own food supply.”

“We should not take away from offenders the very thing citizens are trying to rebuild in communities across Canada,” Atwood said.

A one-time resident farm owner, Atwood was co-founder of the Meadowlark Organic Farm on Pelee Island in Lake Erie, and, among many other books, authored Alias Grace – a novel set in the 1800s in Kingston Penitentiary.

The June 6 rally will begin at 1:30 pm at Sydenham Street United Church in Kingston. Other speakers include Sister Pauline Lally, General Superior of the Sisters of Providence, John Leeman, former inmate and prison farm employee, and farmer Jeff Peters of the National Farmers Union. The march from the church to CSC headquarters will begin about 3 pm.

All are welcome to participate in this free event.

See www.saveourprisonfarms.ca and www.saveourfarms.ca, sponsored by the Union of Solicitor General Employees (USGE/PSAC) for more details.
_____

Media inquiries:
Dianne Dowling 613-546-0869 or dowling@kos.net

Andrew McCann, 613-767-4127 or mccann17@yahoo.com

Bridget Doherty, 613-544-4525, ext 145, bridget.doherty@providence.ca

[Karen]

I wonder what our G20 guests would think if there was a local blockade re: the dispersal of the prison farm dairy herd? Do you think that's why the sale has been moved ahead to July or is it because Harper will be available to change his mind after the summit? hmmmm

[Lydia]

Oh come on Karen, OF COURSE that is the truth. lol. Could there even be a different reason??

Now why did you tell us about that traffic idea of letting the prison farm dairy herd OUT OF JAIL during the G20???

Oh sure share that bit of wisdom with us NOW that it is over.

However, I think we could let the cows out before they come and take them away. lol