LVEC/RSEC/KRSEC whatever

[cain]

Hi all.

I am curious if anyone has seen or head of any of the tenders for the LVEC/RSEC/KRSEC whatever i have been watching the paper and looking at the normal places. However I have not seen any of them. I have heard of companies getting things handed to them.

the reason i ask is because are public/government entities not suppose to put everything out to tender so that the tax payer/payers are getting the best or what someone thinks is the best deal for there money

Just a question

Pat...

[Dogma]

Here is the City of Kingston Link - for their Procurement of Services Policy, along with the existing tendors or RFP (Request for Proposals)

They show existing tendors issued for projects, that are at various timelines of completion relative to their requirements and
indoor or outdoor opportunities for completion.

http://www.cityofkingston.ca/business/tenders/index.asp

I would also like you to pay close atention to item 3.4 of the Purchasing By-law.

http://www.cityofkingston.ca/pdf/bylaws/bl_2000-134.pdf

Then and only then, make appropriate, informed questions related to any city projects -

I also would like to ask where and what valid information leads you to believe that:


"I have heard of companies getting things handed to them."

Frankly; this would be impossible for any major "tendors" to be issued without following the Procurement By-law. Which includes (having 3 quotes), WSIB and Insurance certificates of vendors, A "Bond" issued with the tendor.

Including 2.15 section regarding "lobbying of members of council or staff".

If the latter terms in the by-law are not adheard to - any proponent local or not would be disqualified from the tendor bid.

Council and staff are the only ones that can / will authorise any major contracts/Tendors with regards to any City Project. Council votes on for any funding or acceptance of tendors, just like last nights vote on IBI tendor for traffic studies. And they being "preferred" or recommended by staff - were NOT ACCEPTED FOR THE TENDOR.

Other items for funds or increases or any project proposals i.e new stop signs to revitalizing the Memorial Centre would need and are issued through the same process.

[Lydia]

Two $25,000 donations - one from Kimco Steel Sales Ltd. and one from Jerry and Marilyn Springer - along with a $40,000 gift collected via the Kingston Whig-Standard, have pushed the total funds raised for the Centre to $788,610.97.

Jerry and Marilyn Springer's donation was made as a way of celebrating the couple's 50th year of marriage.

Even thought I have NOT been a great support of the LVEC in the past, I must say "Congradulations on getting these Donations from the Kimco Steel Sales Limited and Mr. and Mrs. Springer.

I have previously be upset with the Springer name on Market Square. However, I firmly believe that they should be acknowledged and thanked by the residents of this city for their donation.

My issue with the family was not with them but the way things happened.

Again Thank you very much for the donations and I am very pleased to see that they still have faith in Kingston and Kingstonians. I also believe that they should be acknowledged for their gifts.

Also Thank you Kimco, Not only have you provided recycling services for free but now you also gave us donations for the LVEC and Your company isn't even in the DOWNTOWN area. This company should also get the citizens respect and thanks.

[cain]

Humm…

I guess that I did not articulate exactly the way I was trying to.

I have been looking at the tenders on the city’s website, the Whig and in other places. And I have not seen all of the tenders for the lvec. I guess what I was wondering is because this is a public private partnership does this mean that everything is done differently.

I choose to keep the company nameless in from my other comment. However I did not see any tenders for the work in question and I know that this company went to a meeting for the work they were trying to get and …. They got the work.

I guess this takes me back to what I was saying above. Since this is a public private partnership does this mean that the private company can choose with out having the job or work going to tender.




Also congratulations to the fundraising group on the new donations.


Pat…

[Lydia]

Hi Cain,

I don't want to have anyone think that I was responding to your questions which I believe is important.

My response is ONLY to inform people that might not as yet know of the great donations that has come to the LVEC.

It has nothing to do with answering your question which I think that Dogma had more information for you.

I have been criticial of the Springer name in the past but I have always respected what the family does. I don't see too many families like them willing to put their name forward as contributors. All contributors should be willing to do so, just like the Springers.

[Dogma]

Lydia - thanks for letting us know, with regards of the donations (tally) for the LVEC.

But, I believe that is mutually exclusive of what this new forum is about...?


Cain -

Again, what work was awarded? (No company names are required to answer this.)

What is the value of the work?

Is it in association with a main contractor? i.e they are a sub-contractor to an issue tendor/ or already awarded job.

Is it a specialty service? i.e sub-contractor, specialty (i.e one vendor locally)

All this matters to/if a tendor will be issued accordingly.

More information would be required for an answer to your assumed "theories".

Thank you.

[cain]

The Job/work in question has to do with some of the arena telecommunications at this moment I do not have a dollar figure. However I will see if I can get the dollar amount.


I do not believe that this person/company has anything to do with any of the existing workers/contractors however I cannot be sure at this time.

The work is not necessarily a specialty service there are at least 10+ local firms that could do the work.

I completely agree.

I will look further into this and post more information as it becomes available.

Thanks for listening.

Pat…

[Lydia]

Hum, very interesting, I read that council has no faith in the company that did the transit survey around the LVEC. I understand that council won't use them again for other studies.

Interesting because finally council has joined the rest of the citizens from all over the city in not believing in that company's survey around the LVEC.

I wonder was it their survey that got rid of the avialable parking around that area?

Why the change now??? A little too late

[cain]

Hum, very interesting, I read that council has no faith in the company that did the transit survey around the LVEC. I understand that council won't use them again for other studies.

Interesting because finally council has joined the rest of the citizens from all over the city in not believing in that company's survey around the LVEC.

I wonder was it their survey that got rid of the avialable parking around that area?

Why the change now??? A little too late

LOL

It is a shame that the city did not listen to the rest of us.

I have always been a firm believer that if the lvec was to be put downtown they would have to make the causeway 4 lanes and finish Wellington st

:)
pat

[Dogma]

LOL

It is a shame that the city did not listen to the rest of us.

I have always been a firm believer that if the lvec was to be put downtown they would have to make the causeway 4 lanes and finish Wellington stThe IBI group that conducted the survey, was critizied by some current members of council for not being as "inclusive" as the other proponents. i.e not enough public meetings were conducted. This is just politics. Period. The other proponent will have just as many, its in the RFQ to have a certain amount (not specified of course)

Infact; the best location (Downtown) for the LVEC was always Anglan Bay.

The naysays and lobbiests & "politics" screwed up the site location.

Remember we are getting 30% less of a building for the (same cost).
We lost 30,000 square foot of conference space because of the naysayers, along with the costs associated with the IBI surveys @ Anglan Bay!

These are the facts. IBI is not at fault here....its the niave citizen who knows little about traffic surveys or LVECs. A little information can / will be a dangerous thing.

[cain]

I totally agree.

just to add to my post above i missed the last bit. before the lvec was opened the wellington st extension and the 3rd crossing should have been done.

pat...

[Dogma]

I agree with you Patrick - there should have been a plan in place for a bridge even Anglan Bay - or at least a target date -over the next 5 years that a bridge expansion, tunnel will be built.

I would even add to this a "toll bridge" would be best to both pay for the expansion, discourage use in off peak hours and control urban sprawl in the east end.

[Lydia]

I agree with you Dogma, I don't blame IBI for this at all. I do blame council for not dealing with the traffic maze that is there . It isn't the company's fault at all. I guess we both didn't get what we wanted, You wanted Anglin Bay and I wanted 401 and Division location lol lol lol. Now we are both unhappy. lol lol.

I agree fully with Cain when he says the third crossing should have been done before the LVEC was done.

Just think, if that happened we would not have council revisiting, and revisting and revisiting the same issues. i.e. Block D, North Block, Garbage collection, Recyling etc. Hell no, what would they do without having those issues to deal with?? Maybe something important like attracting more businesses into the Kingston City?? Maybe really solving an issue, Maybe ensuring that the 98 million dollar items really get dealt with?? hummmmmmm lol lol.

Now I ask you would you really want a council that actually accomplishes something and FINISHES IT????

[BornAndRaised]

Could you imagine if this cost was to be added in the plan for the new arena? What would be the overall costs associated to the Arena? Would it have been approved?

By building the arena first, this accomplishes two things:


The removal of financial barriers that could have hindered the approval of the arena.

Created the need for the second crossing which can't be refuted. Who knows? Maybe the there will now be government assistance on the bridge construction........I mean the tunnel.
I am not saying it is the right way for things to be done but maybe this was the only way.........for the arena, I mean.

BUILD IT AND THEY WILL COME! Sometimes you create a need then things just seem to get done on their own.

JMHO

[Lydia]

Good points, BornandRaised.

I believe that it isn't that these things were build but the way they came about or didn't come about.

I just wish that just once, a project was tackled by council, research done, public input be done BEFORE projects gets started and after all the fighting is done the project gets FINISHED or stopped.

[Dogma]

LVEC in my mind is mutually exclusive of the debate - "if a third crossing is necesssary".

The LVEC as B&Raised rightly observes would not have been built if linked in the LVEC proposal. (Nor would it have been built if the LVEC was not built.)

The bridge is not necessary to have an LVEC, because it does not dramatically hinder or eliminate the original issues that brought the debate/ need for a third crossing in the first place.

The LVEC may aggrevate the current traffic issues i.e rush hour delays, but it certainly is not the most contributing factor.

To me having the 7 priorities (projects) addressed in a process -is the only way to accomplish both the communities current needs and the required budget planning for these 7 projects.

[Lydia]

I agree with you on this Dogma, these 7 priorities should be addressed with the public again. How many people know how these things are going anyway.

You are correct that the LVEC really didn't have that much to do with the 3rd crossing. The traffice study that was done is the problem not the LVEC itself. The council KNEW what could happen and what WILL happen once the LVEC opens. However, there is only one issue here and that is how the traffic study was done.

Here is good news. Just maybe it IS TIME FOR THE THIRD CROSSING. I wonder how many people will want that crossing ONCE all the 400 series of highways start charging us to drive on them.

Just watch how fast this council and the city will want that third crossing now. lol lol.

[Dogma]

Economic forecast bleak: report; Kingston's growth to drop, unemployment to rise

Posted By Frank Armstrong

Posted 2 hours ago

Dwindling construction and manufacturing output will ensure Kingston remains one of Canada's slower growing economies in 2008, according to a national report released yesterday.

The economic forecast from the Conference Board of Canada places Kingston 18th out of 27 census metropolitan areas when it comes to gross domestic product.

"As long as population growth is slow, GDP growth is going to be fairly slow as well," said economist Alan Arcand, the report's author.

Kingston must attract more immigrants to boost the population and increase spending, Arcand said.
He expects economic growth to drop to 2.1 per cent this year from 2.5 per cent in 2007.
The labour market is expected to follow suit with job growth expected to decelerating from 1.6 per cent in 2007 to 0.4 per cent in 2008.

As a result, the report says, the unemployment rate will rise to 6.2 per cent in 2008, up from 5.7 per cent in 2007.
While the manufacturing sector struggled last year, Kingston's public sector jobs and non-residential construction projects buoyed the local economy.

In 2007, the city reported $282 million of non-residential construction projects, making it the hottest non-residential construction year in recent history.

Despite an anticipated tapering of non-residential work in 2008, as construction at the Grand Theatre and the Kingston Regional Sports and Entertainment Centre wraps up, Arcand believes non-residential investment will remain solid this year.

Unfortunately, however, the gains in non-residential construction last year were wiped out by declining residential building, which has been falling for the last four years.

[Lydia]

I wonder Dogma, how much of the bad news comes from the way Council deals with taxation in this city. Hold on to your hats people we will get at LEAST a 6 to 7% increase in taxes when approved in February.

My questions still remains: "If council didn't ensure that 98 million dollars were used by the departments of the city and the projects that were ear-marked to be completed where not finished, WHAT MAKES US THINK THEY WILL DO ANYTHING WITH THAT INCREASED TAXES OF 6 to 7%??

Dogma, If i was interested iin having a business, Taxation is what I would want to know FIRST.

The reason for this is because TAXES affect my bottom line profit.

[Dogma]

The property taxes we pay, of course, don’t reflect benefits (services) received. Nor do they necessarily reflect ability to the pay – except to the extent that there may be some correlation between homes of high value (and assessment) and the incomes of owners of such homes.

Since property taxes reflect the actual value of our property, they inevitably track upward when the real estate market is strong.

Mandated regular reassessments, designed to capture the inflated property values, also help to ensure that these tax increases occur. [Yes, it is appreciated that municipalities could lower property taxes proportionate to the increased assessment values, so that the actual tax impact remained the same – but that almost never happens, for a variety of reasons.]

In response to the taxpayer complaints in South Carolina, the Governor has been musing about an initiative to increase the sales tax (as a way of gaining additional revenues for the local level) and to place a limit or freeze on property tax increases.

Such an intervention from the state level – to limit property tax increases – is somewhat reminiscent of Ontario’s intrusion into municipal affairs through the capping of business tax increases in recent years.

Also familiar is the call down here for more revenue sources for municipalities, to reduce the dependence on the property tax. i.e more incentives for medium and large companies to settlle in the area. The residence of Kingston cannot subsidies the lack of incentive now, the previous councils (in the 70's / 80's) enjoyed (then) when Kingston's Government Institutional employment, manufacturing and service industry were a steady and major part of the regions economy.

If all politics is local (as Tip O’Neill famously said), it appears that nothing is more political and local than the municipal property tax.

[Lydia]

I understand Dogma, that taxes are a necessary evil and we all complain needlessly when taxs go up.

My problem isn't that there is going to be an increase. My problem is that taxes are increased without them being used for the purposes they were collected.

Mayor Hazel and her council runs the city of Mississauga as a BUSINESS. SHE IS TOTAL UPFRONT AND OPEN AND ACCOUNTABLE AND DETERMINED TO GIVE THE CITY QUALITY PROJECTS. That council prides itself on not raising taxes just for the sake of it. THEY ARE FISCIALLY RESPONSIBLE.

That is all the people in Kingston want from our taxes as well. However, all that the residents see is services being cut, projects not being completed, and no accountablity.

It isn't that taxes are raised it is that we don't get our money's worth.

[Dogma]

Lydia - I understand what you are saying... and we all wish taxes would go down instead of always up...

but frankly the budget talks and subsequent tax increases are to cover the budget (line items) such as Welfare, ODSP payments, Community Recreational Budget, Municipal Works Dept, Police and Fire, Utilities Kingston, Health Unit...on and on...as an Accountant knows - these are fixed costs for a community to be run properly, and required by our society as "normal" operational necessities.

Additionally; Lydia - I see each and every City Department has either restructured & is adapting to the changes required for the 21st century. From insurance/liability issues, customer service and new costs to do business issues. To inflation!

I also see "concrete examples of our taxes at work - a new Police Station, Ravensview Water Treatment Plant, Health Unit... as examples of our municipal taxes at work. I certainly believe we have made major inroads to deliver services to the community that betters serves our community. I also realise other levels of Government have put a heavy burden on our Municipal Governments to deliver services with less support from upper levels of Government. At the same time the cost of fuel, raw materials, infastructure costs has almost doubled in the past 10 years.

But, I do see new and more Municipal buses, more routes...I see recreational equipment in parks being updated, I see City Hall being repaired, updated to safety levels.

I see the new pipeline completed across the waterfront causeway.

And P\personally, our neighbourhood road was rebuilt with new sewers and infastructure, (and very efficiently, and customer services oriented, they did an excellent job) I see new lighting in our local park, new flower beds and benchs...
that have not been touched in 50 years!

I see economic development in the Central & West end, I see new skating rinks, Community Centres, Entertainment facility(s) and educational institutions all upgraded for the next 2 generations...

What more could one ask for? I see our taxes at work!

Don't you????

:confused:

[Lydia]

:p:pDON'T I SEE MY TAX DOLLARS AT WORK?? HELL NO!!!:p:p:p I AM OLD LADY WHO SITS IN MY CHAIR AND DOESN'T GO OUT OF THE HOUSE. :p:p:p GEEZ!!!

Thank Dogma, for tell us all where tax dollars are really going. Good job. I do appreciate those tax dollars complete.

What do I want? Okay here goes

1: I want SERVICES IMPROVED from the Garbage/ Recycle departments. I am pay taxes for those and getting, less and less services. These can be improved.

2: I want the Police budget NOT SPEND on HOMECOMING but the bill send to QUEENS. I want the Police to insure that the RIDE PROGRAM be there EVERYTIME THERE ARE HOLIDAYS, Last Christmas, I was told that there was NONE.

3: We have a Graffetti Problem in the city. I understand that nothing will be done unless it is complaint driven by residents. I have one question.

WHY COULDN'T THE POLICE OFFICERS WHO DRIVE AROUND THIS CITY MAKE NOTE OF IT AND INFORM THE CORRECT DEPARTMENT TO REMOVE IT. WHY COULDN'T THE MAILMAN/WOMAN WHO WALKS THE STREETS MAKE NOTE OF IT. WHY COULDN'T COUNCILORS WHO LIVE IN THE DISTRICTS MAKE NOTE OF??

People are intimidated and fearful of revenge and won't do it. They won't do it because even when their cars have been broken in and damaged, nothing was done by the police. Okay maybe several days later an officer MAY write a report but that is all that happens.

Mr. Gerrad Hunt TOLD the departments to start doing the work that 98 million dollars better be used properly. God Bless Him, He was honest and up front.

We need more of that. Dogma, The ordinary City Staffer does great work and are hard working people.

Anyway, thanks for point out where our tax dollars are being used and we need to be told from time to time how they are being used.

When it comes to the Federal and Provincial governments downloading responsibility and funds, I agree with you fully. I do know that people are starting to talk about TAX REVOLTS if we actually get 7% increase in our taxes.

[Dogma]

Parking around facility to change

Posted 3 hours ago

The layout of parking spaces around the Kingston Regional Sports and Entertainment Centre will change over the coming weeks.
More spaces are to be added and some moved around as the city readies for opening night on Feb. 22.

Council approved the changes this week. Here's what will happen:

Metered parking will be removed from the west side of King Street between Queen Street and Place d'Armes and moved to the east side of King Street between Queen and Barrack streets;

Stopping will be prohibited on the west side of King Street between Queen and Place d'Armes;

The "no parking zone" on the south side of Place d'Armes between Wellington and King streets will be removed and metered parking put in its place, and there will be no spots on the east side of the Food Basics;

Tour bus parking spaces will be removed from the Drury parking lot and two spaces added to the east side of Wellington Street between Barrack Street and Place d'Armes and will be about nine metres from intersections to allow for better sightlines for turning cars;

Five-minute parking will be allowed on the south side of Barrack between King and Ontario streets for passenger pick-up/drop-off;

It will cost $3 to exit the Chown or Hanson parking garages after 6 p.m. when the attendant is not on duty.

What a deal - Lets see if Mayor Hazel can beat these prices!!! I doubt it! Not in T.O...

Count your blessings you (still) live in an affordable area of the province...

[Lydia]

:p:p:p the 7 % tax increase is a figure that was talked about at the Loyalist Cataraqui Community Association last Sunday. Whether it ever gets approved by ALL of council is let to be approved. However, where there is smoke there is usually fire. Where ever there is talk of Tax increase usually it happens. lol lol.


AH, Mayor Hazel has taught you well Dogma. lol lol.

Thank GOD for some flexiblity regarding the dropping off of passengers, visibility for drivers and parking. Previously there was NONE.

I truly hope that not only will the opening of the LVEC be a success but that from here on it becomes a great success. Now I feel a little more positive about it. Do you know if the name has been selected yet?? I suggested the Rosen.

[Dogma]

Lydia - there has always been a parking and logistic plan - its in the IBI study, its in the business plan, and it has been fined tuned to meet the needs of the facility in its new location.

It is no surprise that most if not all the "concern citizens" or at hock associations or neighbourhood naysayer groups, feel they need to breed mistrust, while not even referring to any of the reports or studies since the projects beginning!

Next month we will have the "debate" on naming rights candidates for council to approve.

This should be a real circus on Cogeco 13 Tuesday night - for the "conspiracy activists" to try to tie any news worthy items (or made up ones) for the naming right company(s) "applicants" that are "recommended by staff".

I can hear some of them now, no we cannot accept the Kellogg's bid - because that company has been "known" to pay there peope less than minimum wage! Or Phizer the ****** maker - has been linked - to selling these products to 3rd world nations! "We can't accept that bid....!"

- It should be called the "Green Peace Centre". -- don't you think Mayor Rosen??? :p:p:p :mad::mad: :confused::confused: :o:o :)

[Lydia]

I know that there has always been a logistic, parking, and budgetary plan. I'm not saying that there wasn't any.

I'm saying that what you have informed us about these is more encouraging that I previous heard. This does make me happier.

You are correct there will be the usual complaining done. However, I wasn't trying to be funny when I asked about it. I really truly do believe that it should be called "'The Rosen"". Mayor Rosen worked very hard at getting this established in this city. He has supported the project from day one. He has done his best to have it downtown (along with council)

As far as I am concerned He should take fully credit for this project and it should be named after him.

Keep in mind, I'm not trying to be nice to Mayor Rosen, I'm Just saying I truly believe the above. lol However, if "The Rosen" isn't acceptable, how about 'THE DOGMA"" :D:D:D:D

[Dogma]

Frankly - as long it is not called the Kingston Heritage Centre, I do not care what "naming rights" are applied to the buildings facade.

To me whats in a name?

As long as it brings in needed revenues for a long period of time as per the business plans needs, I'm not ok with "The Dogma". or The Rosen neither are very catchy!

How about The Black Hole? KCAL suggested that one!

[Lydia]

Dogma, the KCAL group will create a BLACK HOLE out of the LVEC if they don't get over it. When I suggested "The Rosen" I wasn't being flipped. Now I WAS being flipped when I suggested "The Dogma" lol lol.

Regardless of our previous opinions on the LVEC, WE the residents better start to get behind the project.

There is nothing to wrong with a great debate but when it is over. IT IS OVER.

We either start to take pride in what we HAVE or we will be living in a black hole.

[Dogma]

Lydia - all I can add is its safer in this forum than the "pesticide" one.

Mr. Lowes seems pretty serious about the "banning activist". (sorry expert)

I may just hang out here for a while. With my head down...

Do you mind, I can bring cookies if you bring the tea?

[Lydia]

Tea and Cookies seem just fine to me. lol lol.

No need to hang down your head, Dogma, you deserve the right to hold it up high because you deserve it.

As per Jeffrey Lowes, If he ever starts a bank account to fight the pesticides supporters in court, I'll be the first to put money into it.

Anyway, it won't be the pesticide issue that will cause us to run for our lives, it will be the budget if council doesn't get it right.

However, you are the first person who had the guts to tell it as it is about where our tax dollars are going. This is what should happen ALL THE TIME.

Toronto Taxes are going up 3 to 4%, of course there are other quirks in raising money that they did. However, if you look at the following site you will know what they are doing .

http://www.toronto.ca/budget2008/

Enjoy the rest of your day Dogma

[Lydia]

Steve Cruickshank, President of Cruickshank Construction donated $50,000 to the LVEC.


I believe we should all acknowled the companies and people who donate to what will make Kingston a better place to live.

Even during after World Wars, enemies have realized the battle is over. Over time, these countries are now friendlier. Maybe it is time for the Yes Camps and the No Camps should come together and make the LVEC better.

[Dogma]

Check out who is still stocking the fires..of bitterness...

...they will never give up!

http://www.kcal.ca/

[Dogma]

K-Rock sings winning tune; Radio station awarded naming rights for new sports and entertainment centre

Posted By Jordan Press Whig-Standard City Hall Reporter

Posted 2 hours ago

The name of the new downtown sports and entertainment centre is music to the ears of the city.

Radio station K-Rock was awarded naming rights to the $46.5-million facility early this morning. The deal is worth $3.3 million over 10 years.
Councillors unanimously approved the deal despite heated debate about the terms of the agreement.

"It is unanimous. We have a name," deputy mayor Rob Matheson declared.

The leadup to the announcement, however, was riddled with questions. "I'm not going to lie to you," said Councillor Mark Gerretsen during discussion over the terms of the deal. "I'm not feeling good about it."

K-Rock wanted council to debate the merits of the agreement, and not the company itself.

"They feel the validity and the credibility of the company would be discussed," said project manager Lanie Hurdle.

"The candidate was clear that if council members are not interested in following the process that was outlined, they wouldn't be able to complete this process with the city."

The naming-rights agreement is worth $150,000 this year and escalates by three per cent for the next decade. As well, the winning company will provide $150,000 of products and services each year.

The company does have an out in the agreement. If benchmarks for attendance aren't met during the 10-year term of the agreement, the corporate sponsor could back out of the deal.

"This is a fairly standard clause," said Neil Shorthouse of Arcturus/SMG, the arena's private operator.