LVEC Timeline, to date

[fsrvival]

Hi,

It's interesting to see the development of the LVEC as a political issue by scrolling through this timeline:

LVEC Timeline (http://kcal.ca/LVECNewsTimeline.html)

This being the KCAL website, comments are interspersed with media reports and links to document that are no longer on the City's website, if they ever were.

Citizens were having to play a game of catch-up every step of the way.

Kevin George has caught the wave, but he can't ride it without the next Council.

He's finally read the electors, though. Too bad it's too late.

Mary

[Dogma]

Don't get me wrong - but your groups timeline layout seems very bias, confusing and difficult to navigate.

Maybe its just me, but from what others have said in my area your group is rather over the top.

Most - see no value in whining about such a small project that is well within its mandate, timing and budget.

So, I would suggest unless you can prove that you have (any work experience) or current academic research with regards to LVEC's, please stop making such ill informed assumptions.

Unfortunately- ultra left, well off retirees and the misinformed public have little to go on in Kingston on LVEC's. (Kingston has never had one!)

And what a small town thinking - don't know about - usually frightens one - thus the mood.

Rosen should have designated an exclusive spokesperson for the LVEC, and communicated it much clearer. Especially with the Market Square situation.

But, it still is a viable project and a very small "Public Entertainment Centre". The smallest in Canada.

But the next four years looks like a very "left" and enviromental, social agenda driven council. Maybe thats a good thing, I just hope its not the only thing!

[Lydia]

We all saw how city hall deals with naming rights. Anyone with a few dollars like Mr. Springer had can BUY the naming rights. Our City policy on this sucks. I believe that the naming of Market Square shows how the public feel about the city’s policy.

Since it is the CITIZENS who will attend the Arena for events it seems reasonable for they to HAVE INPUT. I say INPUT not the FINAL say. For Councillors who find it offensive then these councillors should have not be on council. It is disgraceful for any so-called councillor to be fearful of their resident’s input.

Thank you Rob Matheson for having the guts to suggest that the public have INPUT (not final say) I agree with Cynthia Beach when she said the final decision would go against the city’s naming rights policy. It only shows why the public distrusted previous councils. The public always said that those councils could not be trusted and could be BOUGHT.

Thank you Steve Garrison for letting council know that a POLICY CAN BE CHANGED FOR THE BETTERMENT OF SOCIETY.

If someone wants to HIDE the fact that they would want their names on a project, then what else do they have to HIDE?????? This is so stupid. Why not simply collect the names of families who wish to have naming rights and then have the public vote for their favourite. Is it REALLY that hard for influential people to let the public know that it would NOT be a disgrace to ACCEPT naming rights????

Councillor Ed Smith said public input should be an option consultants could discuss with bidders and see what they want to do “so we don’t put up roadblocks to potential naming.”

Finally Ed Smith and I are on the same page. I agree with him fully.

Councillor Mark Gerretsen. Said Instead of having the final result voted on by the public, residents should be given a chance before the final vote to have their say

Maybe the public would WANT to honour the families or individuals whom have contributed to our society. I would think that naming rights should be a PREVILEGE. not a BOUGHT RIGHT.

[Dogma]

I hope and expect there would be only well known "corporate sponsors" for the application for naming rights. I.e. Empire Life, DuPont, Biovail or Royal Bank, or even offshore large corporate company names.

I do not expect local small, medium size companies such as the Springer’s Group of Companies to Ameys Taxi to even consider putting their name on such a facility. And it would be ridiculous for the community.

We need large, traditional established and recognized companies for the naming rights. Although if any companies business is taking a slide, the first thing that gets chopped from their budget - is Marketing and promotions!

I say leave the public out of this until you have 3 candidates, the councilors in each district can arrange a meeting or get some feedback - then they can vote with their constituents in mind.

[Lydia]

I say leave the public out of this until you have 3 candidates, the councilors in each district can arrange a meeting or get some feedback - then they can vote with their constituents in mind.


Okay Dogma, I only have one word for you.

EXACTLY.:p :p :p


The only thing people really want is CHOICE.

[Dogma]

Here we go the panic button for the nay says has been issued!

"I told you so...I told you so!" :mad: :mad: :mad:

Whig reports LVEC is over budget (or needs more cash) for some unforeseen "extras" that have developed. Frankly; the 5% contingency of 1.5 million I thought was low, but we will see on the grand scale of things if it even means much over the project. Unlike the Grand Theater that should never have been budgeted for Reno.

We should just get the extra 2-3 million from that project? Considering it is financed at almost 60% by tax payers!

http://www.cityofkingston.ca/img/strategic/Go7/SportsCentre_480.gifhttp://www.cityofkingston.ca/img/strategic/Go7/GrandTheatre_480.gif

[Lydia]

How, how, Dogma, WOULD I SAY I TOLD YOU SO??? :D :D :D

Okay,now that WE ALL KNEW every project that the city EVER had was ALWAYS OVER BUDGE, the citizens expected this. (So big deal)

Now that everything is known, let's get the REAL numbers. Rather than pick on YOU, I would much prefer to understand what costs there are at present along with costs of potential problems ahead.

An example that I have is the funding from the Federal Government. Has any of that money been FULLY ACQUIRED?? If not, what is the stumbling block.

This usually happens when mayors of the city make projects happen because of POSSIBLE FUNDING and not SECURED FUNDING.

When it is all said and done, now that everyone got this out of their system "I Told you So." (crap) Can we get the real figures should the funding from the Feds NOT COME TRUE versus if the Federal funds do come in.

Since you have the business plan and are very familar with it, you are the person I think has a better understanding of it than any other person in the city.

Dogma, don't sweat it, You know we all love to tease you. You are like not NOT GOD, only moral.;) ;)

[Lydia]

Thanks Dogma for producting the pie chart. I didn't see it before i sent the first posting.

Considering the fact the pie chart didn't INCLUDE FEDERAL FUNDING, I consider this a very REALISTIC PLAN. If these are truly the figures, than it is what i fully expected.

I take it back, no 'I TOLD YOU SO" for you.

[Lydia]

:D :D :D :D Councillor Ed Smith said if there is an overrun, the amount would be financed over 40 years like other debts on the arena. Smith said it’s not unusual for a large project to come across unanticipated costs.

“This thing is being built for the memories it will create,” Smith said. “We will just have to deal with it. The public will have to deal with it.”

Trust me Ed, Kingston citizens will definately have MEMORIES of the LVEC. :D :D

The question is what KIND of memories will they have of YOU when you tell us DEAL WITH IT. It is almost as good as the 'JUST DO IT" COMMENTS that can be taken different ways.

[Dogma]

Councillor Ed Smith said if there is an overrun, the amount would be financed over 40 years like other debts on the arena. Smith said it’s not unusual for a large project to come across unanticipated costs.

“This thing is being built for the memories it will create,” Smith said. “We will just have to deal with it. The public will have to deal with it.”


Yikes - what does this comment say to you? ...Get over it?... Just eat it? ...Just build it? ...(and shut up)

Man - for a so called "businessman" and returning council member:
- he sure knows how to set himself up for a foot in the mouth.

He should have said NOTHING - until the report is out! What an egomaniac. (Or very stupid)

I am sure he would say the same for the Memorial Centre renovation fund?

Man - this guy is sooooooooo silly sometimes....and his body language is that of a teenager.

He needs help. Or he will be toast!

[Lydia]

Exactly, Dogma,

I don't think Ed is stupid at all. I just think he is arrogant and thinks he needs to keep defending his position on the LVEC. There really isn't any need for that at all.

Councilors like him is why there is a distrust of council. If you watch his style of being on council, you will see that he does his best to belittle councilors that he doesn't agree with.

It isn't that his position is incorrect or correct, it is the manner he presents his positions.

I will trust and defend any councilor whom i disagree with for having the guts to point out the issues that determine how they vote for things. How can anyone Criticize someone for having different facts on issues.

If he would only present his reasons and ideas instead of belittle his counterparts on council, I would stand and defend him. Until then he is toast. lol lol If he doesn't watch it he will be burned toast. lol

[Dogma]

If he would only present his reasons and ideas instead of belittle his counterparts on council, I would stand and defend him. Until then he is toast. lol lol If he doesn't watch it he will be burned toast. lol


I agree with you Lydia - he is neither stupid, silly or niave.

He is "sensitive" to the building of the LVEC and its continuious "micro management" of groups and citizens (nay sayers) that will grasp on anything to discredit ones positive spin on the project.

I never noticed that he belittles other council members with regards to issues (main issues) such as Lafarge tire burning, or LVEC etc. I just found his long winded speeches seemed a little dramatic and off the cuff. He also keeps saying "ummm" between every sentence - that gives an appearance of indecisiveness and very poor speaking or communications skills. Other than that he seems like most of the rest concerned about the community and realises how hard it is to get anything done around here!