Agent99 on the LVEC - "WED - Ha" (White elephant done half-assed) AKA LVEC

[keoadmin]

A December Blog by Agent99

Okay folks, at what point are you going to start to pay attention. Back in February of last year I said the LVEC project would not see the light of day. So in an attempt to enlighten a few people on how the rest of the world thinks, lets look at some of the principle thoughts in developing a business model:

"Economics is the study of social behavior guiding in the allocation of scarce resources to meet the unlimited needs and desires of the individual members of a given society.”


see The Digital Economist, Douglas A. Ruby, www.digitaleconomist.com/economics.html (http://www.digitaleconomist.com/economics.html)


Please go to this site with an open mind. They have never heard of a WED-Ha but I hope that after careful consideration they will add this term on how not to do things.

Now in layman’s terms and would like to ask a couple of questions on the latest site of the WED-Ha:

1. Which side of the building is the transport trucks going to park?

2. Where are the loading docks going to be?

3. Is the seating capacity going to be reduced yet again?

4. If each side of the building is about 12 car lengths, where are the other 988 cars going to line up if one out of 5 people are going to dropped off at the door for off site parking, did we forget that they may want to be picked up?

5. Will the cost of the land being bought beside the Wolfe Islander be added to the total cost?

6. How much has been spent creating jobs for this project and is KEDCO counting (or has already counted) on these jobs?

7. When was the last time you left Kingston to be entertained at a hockey rink in another city for something other than hockey?

Remember you got what you voted for, but the shovel is too busy with the snow to be put in the ground lately.

- Agent99 ;)

[Lydia]

keoadmin, keoadmin, keoadmin

You are starting to sound like me. :eek: :eek: :eek:

Thank you for this Wed Ha article. I actually enjoyed the website you mentioned. It was actually very good and I must admit i laughed my head off when I thought about how things happened and how it should have happened.


I wonder if this Monday's Meeting at the Memorial Centre at 1 to 4 will take WedHa into consideration. The Meeting is about the"" VISION"" on redevelopment of the J.K. Tett Centre.

Anyway thanks for sharing this with us.

[Exhibitionist]

Well - RFP are out.

And a mighty gong show - brought out the best the other night at council.

The lefties stayed left the righties were "right again".

All is approved and moving forward.

Except for the union that is not going to run the LVEC into the ground like the Memorial Centre. Opps! Did I say Union workers are "bad" or over paid? in Kingston???

......hey maybe lets just try non union and see what happens!

Sorry. Althought the councillor spoke his piece - it felt like he was saying something that most of us think! Thats bad right? Anti Union - right?

Anyways - its full steam head and although KCAL and Bruce Todd will be out inforce with their mis-information (as usual) - I think there silly , uninformaed and inexperienced group - are going to be falling on deaf ears! (in the long run)

[Lydia]

In the long run you are right, Kingston is going to get screwed no matter what we think. Guess what in the end when NOBODY ATTENDS THE LVEC. and it goes the way the SKYDOME did, You will be RIGHT. Congratulations.

I still am waiting for your answer? How many $100,000.00 Jobs will LVEC create? ONE???? It does not matter anyway.

I pity you, I truly am sorry, that you feel so low about yourself that you have a deep need to put down everyone around you. It is so obvious that you do feel that way because you work so hard to have an arrogant manner.

You must be fun to live with, I hope your family does not get your dislike that you have for the following:

Me
Derek
Kingston Residents
KCAL Group
Union Workers
Even yourself

[macphail]

I said that I wouldn't respond to posts by *************, but this topic is close to my heart.

Comments like those by Councillor Stoparczyk, regardless of whether or not one agrees with them, does more harm by continuing to create a level of distrust between staff and council.

I'm not a union person (even if my wife is very active in her union) as I believe they once served a purpose and they have since lost focus, with more attention being paid to their own survival than the benefit of their membership; however, I would never intentially poke them with a stick the way present and past councils/councillors have.

Councillors should never malign City staff in a public forum. Not only are they counterproductive to the efforts of the Administration who may be involved with the implementation of projects that would transition more smoothly with union participation/agreement, it is poor form and should not be tolerated, even if a remedy isn't found in the the procedural by-law.

Moving forward, I would hope that the Chair either warns Councillors to show respect towards staff, and failing that, a revised procedural by-law that will restrict it or provide remedy should it occur again.

Cheers, Derek

[Exhibitionist]

I agree with macphail. It was not necessarily appropriate to speak on TV - (to) the public union unprepared and so bluntly. Like most in this "chat" room!

But likely a necessary reality check - at the time of Beths Paters motion (and I like Beth) on who should be operating the facility for (inclusion) in the RFP.

When the local union does not have the "experience, track record and training" to run a facility that includes so many different "complex venues and staging equipment".

And as you said the union here in North America are naval gaziers...
Unions I think are necessary but its sad that they have become self indulged
with salaries for less work, benefits / pensions! Meanwhile they do nothing for marginalised, part time or clerical staff. Thats outrageous.

Just for your education on the reality of unions in LVEC's. (lesson # 12)

When I started working at the Toronto International Centre - The union folks there - for coffee break/lunch etc. would go around back jump in a car together and drink alcohol, smoke whatever etc. Then come back into the "public" facility and climb on their forklifts etc. - drive around like daredevils, unloading trucks, move expensive show equipment, crates and alike (drayage). Remember drayage???? Still no answers came forth!

Often at events - client would both refuse to have certain drivers, movers etc. touch their expensive equipment (because they could smell the booze) and some union folks (that could NOT be fired) would almost have fist fights with clients or get back at clients by working the night shift (still drinkin..) but before the event they would tear down the booths of clients and through them in the dumpsters! In Chicago the same thing. In fact; the unions there are tied to the mob!

That is the "reality of facilities like these with unions" - unless a more flexible, respectful and well trained, safer work force is present the building and the business it will bring to Kingston will be underminded. (By the way, most of the same guys are still there 20 years later at the TICC - but they now hide behind the large bins out the side.)

Leave it to the experts. (at least for now) The operating "contract" is only for a limited time. Then see.

As for the LVEC itself from one who has much more experience with such facilities than anyone here. (unless you can prove otherwise)

The LVEC if handled appropriately with process, business plan and market studies that both reflect the needs and wants of progressive thinkers and not persons that as the Business Professor at Queens suggested - people come to retire and die here. Well I tell you I would rather have my taxes go up a little to support the local community - than 3%
to give CUPE members another raise.

[Exhibitionist]

Go LVEC go! Go LVEC go! Go LVEC go! Go LVEC go!

Go LVEC go! Go LVEC go! Go LVEC go! Go LVEC go!

Go LVEC go! Go LVEC go! Go LVEC go! Go LVEC go!

Go LVEC go! Go LVEC go! Go LVEC go! Go LVEC go!

Go LVEC go! Go LVEC go! Go LVEC go! Go LVEC go!

Go LVEC go! Go LVEC go! Go LVEC go! Go LVEC go!

Go LVEC go! Go LVEC go! Go LVEC go! Go LVEC go!

[Emerald]

I can only think that *************'s experience with union members was the result of very bad management.

[Exhibitionist]

In fact I have been in a Union and management position.

But, regarding publically funded "Convention Centre facilities"
- as the LVEC is:

Good Management or not - the front line workers on the floor, forklifts etc. - from my 20 years of experience - at the "prime vendues in North America - they have not changed one bit! Because of no concessions from unions. (They can't get fired!) No matter how many management changes there has been over the years. Sorry - its just reality here.

And because I have also found Unions- then and now - more interested in preserving the "status quo" - than helping others (bothers and sisters outside the "union fortress" ) - such as part time, marginalised and clerical staff i.e- such as the latest CUPE strike here in Ontario!

Another Perfect example: I was working for manufacturing firm.

The pay was generally $ 25.00 per hrs with benefits and pensions for full time. (Not for part time, contract or student summer staff.)

The manufacturing sector (as you should be aware) has more competition from emerging markets. And Canada in particular does not invest / or have the monies to invest (historically) in more productive capital equipment to make themselves more competitive. (in a capitalist free market)

The management - asked the current workers to accept a 4 day week - so that there would be no layoffs for any staff (clerical or floor worker)
For one years time. At that time management and the union would access the situation - and renegotiate based on the market needs - while aggressively looking for more domestic and international clients.

The union refused.

So, layoffs came within 3 months time for 20% of the staff. Mostly non union, some union and management staff. (...real people to)

These are the real "current examples" along with how union here and in the 21st century - need to be more flexible and less selfserving if they which to be part of a competitive global market.

[Lydia]

*************'s experiences is just fan tastic, lol lol lol

Loves the LVEC, AN AUTHORITY ON COMPANIES, UNIONS, PEOPLE, KINGSTON, CANADA,

He must be GOD, HIGH POWER, ETC.

One problem with that is that he can NEVER LEARN A THING, AND GETS NOTICED FOR WHAT HE DOES NOT DO.

He is right about one thing, yep, 550,000.00 will go to great higher paying jobs. What he won't tell you is that that money will ONLY GO TO CONSULTANTS AND POLITICIANS ON THE TAKE. GO LVEC GO. Actually that is my desire as well however, is say Go LVEC Go AWAY FAR AWAY FROM KINGSTON. Until the ASSUMptions are all gone and the truth is actually presented.

You notice now ************* doesn't use his name, he does not advertise his ((company that he owned) (probably bankrupted) Notice how he is an authority on everything.

Must be hard on that edge of a pin that should be placed somewhere on his person to let all the HOT AIR OUT.

[Evelyn King]

;) Could The ************* Be A Member Of City Council????

Seems To Know A Lot About So Many Things But Doesn't Have The Courage To Use Their Real Name. I Totally Disregard Anything This Person Has To Say. As A Taxpayer In This Community This Person Should Become More Informed And Will Probably Be A Most Angry Person When His Or Her Taxes Are Raised Skyhigh.

Best Regards To All,

Evelyn King

[Lydia]

************* Be A Member Of City Council


You think it could be Evelyn?? Hell of course this supreme being is. Who else would create and defend this LVEC and KNOW OH SOOOOOOOOOOOO MUCH.

Sad thing is this jerk honestly believes his own crap.

However, we poor TAXPAYERS would not even think that??? Would we? lol lol Probably came up with the idea of 550,000 to give away even when the provincial and federal governments have not agreed to fund any of the costs on the LVEC

[Exhibitionist]

It is (already known) that the folks here in this "Chat Room" forum, KCAL and many members of the public are not for investing in the future. (through the LVEC)

You are obviously happy with the lives (you) lead (retired) and the status
quo of organisations locating here - such as low paying- Starteks and Starbucks.

US firms that suck the profits out of locally run businesses - directly to the US is fine with you I guess.

If you cannot understand the most (basic concepts) regarding Trade Show/Event Facilities that encourage: (80% of all participant/firms at the LVEC - come from outside the area).

I think your just like the "old KEDCO" - when for them - they just waited for the phone to ring, played shuffle board and stand around drinking Starbuck "designer coffee".

Why also would you care - if you don't need or want a job. I understand all this!

But, you don't obviously understand........LVEC Facilities - thus the forum theme.

But, - I also agree with some here that the LVEC is not a "silver bullet" nor not a risk.

As for the ones against this project - the council members (representing the public) and the grants (if forthcoming) will decide its obvious fate.

But, its not enough to just say - that the LVEC will "raise MY retiree residential taxes."

But it is obviously a problem with the NAYSAYS. Fine - but please just try to dig a little deeper than that. (micro thinking?)

Thus the "campaign/research" on the reality of taxation in Kingston. The "reality" of Convention Facilities and questions to the forum audience to find out (really what they know) about such facilities. So, when it comes to making conversation/decisions on the LVEC they have some additional information.

KEDCO - which is funded by you and I through taxes over the past 10 + years has also done little for "people who lived here in their working years". (not retired years)

- They should be encouraging - sustainable, "good" economic development to Kingston.

Again: (Not Starteks, Starbucks and Walmarts) - low paying, US firms profit.

This has been KEDCO's track record. While thousands of good paying jobs vanish.

KEDCO has now cost you and I approx. 25 million dollars. (at least)

And thats what you call a good investment?

And Lydia is just not good enough to (blame Kedco or/anyone) that you seem to have minimal involvement with, and have little to do with other than a few words and one question period. (Thats not being involved in OUR community economic development or business mentoring) But, I suppose its a start.

It is great that (some) do have a "true intereststake" in the future of KEDCO. I applaud
Mr. Robinson for actually stepping up and changing the structure, focus etc. He is not about "talk". (Or chat rooms.) He REALLY GETS INVOLVED. The others? I think the jury is still out.

Thus - the reasons for my interest and involvement at least in this forum from my experience in such facilities. (Not because of ego - I assure you) I have and am still involved both with my time and monies in various local non profit community groups - to give folks "some experience" in running a successful business/ or job options.

I just hoped to help de-mistify the LVEC facility (a little) and give folks some more info
of what this facility is like, with or without unions, business development opportunities, need for a multipurpose facilitiy etc. But, it seems I have to much resistance here no matter what I suggest. I'm sorry. I tried to help.

But, Lydia you have something to hide. I truly have put forth the best (information and reasoning) I can from experience( in facilities) such as the LVEC.

You unfortunately seem to "elude" or misconstrude any questions put forth by me. If you can't or do not wish to understand the issues with the LVEC, i.e location, events, union verse non union, drayage, economic spin offs, marketing studies, business plans etc. after perusing all the info on this site, then it is hopeless to continue discussions with you.

I'm sorry but you are obviously taking things to personally and your ego has been hurt. I'm sorry (if that helps) - I cannot do anything about that. Nor was it my intent.

I appreciate hot air, (obviously) but please give us some (proof of your knowledge) with these facilities not "eluding", B.S or rude unwarranted behaviour.

[Lydia]

*************,
I know i have given you a very hard time on here and you likewise dish it out to me as well and frankly I actually appreciate you doing so. Even if you won't tell us your name, your views are out in the public view and there are MANY MANY MANY people out there like you but don't have the guts to say what you do say.

I do not have any problems with having the LVEC or any of the other 7 projects that you maybe for. THE ONLY THING I SAY ABOUT ANYTHING IS THAT YOU TELL US THE TRUTH ABOUT THE PROJECTS, THE HOWS, THE WHYS, THE WHERES etc.

Do you honestly think that the public is not aware of the fact that politicians will do ANYTHING to get what they truly want? Example is when Mark Segsworth stated that the cost of the protecting the historical value of the items below the ice rink was not a cost incurred in the building the ice rink. A COST IS A COST.

When it comes to the LVEC, the money that has been allocated towards municipal capital reserve fund to be used for the LVEC is STILL TAXES. Whether you or I like it or not it was collected under the allocation of TAX DOLLARS.

People KNOW that if and when the LVEC is created that it will be TAX DOLLARS that created it, No Ands, Buts, or Ors about it.

This city is in a catch 22 position, you have to create tax dollars in order to get tax dollars. You need to get the 7 projects in order to have businesses want to come here to develop otherwise the city starts dying. Likewise if you don't upgrade infrastructure businesses won't want to come either.

CALL A SPADE A SPADE, Call money for the LVEC money from Taxes. BE UP FRONT.

Chat lines are the new ways of communicating with fellow members of the public. Businesses have conferences calls, why shouldn't the public have chat lines???? lol lol lol.
Besides you and I are on here. lol lol I bet you won't DARE say the things you are saying if it wasn't on this chat line??? lol lol

[Exhibitionist]

Ah Lydia - I think (anyone) with any political savy generally needs to balance both the needs and wishes of the public and the costs associated with the initative. Its not as simple as calling a spade a spade.

YOU as a bean counter - can probably count on your "right" hand the number of leaders that stayed in power AND got something accomplished - that souly spoke in "numbers".

Call a Spade a Spade I don't think so. Not in your or my lifetime.

It is not just as simple as one thinks when spending "public money".

It has to be committeed, "sold", rubber stamped and then scrutinized throughout the entire process. (Magnify it by 1000 in a "small minded" town like Kingston.)

I certainly would not want the job if folks like you an KCAL are mini -managing an initiative
every step of the way. YIKES!

I don't think you folks can help it. You do have a point.

But, you lack true public political experience.

Yes, this is a "chat room" for bored, old money farts. (I agree)

And yes I have and will have said many of the same things "in public", to my parents, family, friends and to academics, Chamber of Commerce to neighbours and will continue.

You - though maybe more "politcally correct". You should run for Mayor !
I think you would suit the job. (at least for one term anyways)

I quit!

[Lydia]

*************
Guess what!!! I would never run for mayor, The public couldn't stand it. :D :D I know i have been trying to illustrate my position on things. My hubby says im very trying at times.:D :D

Tonight I mentioned your name at the Tett Centre. I told the crowd that you and I were having a jolly old time, tormenting each other. This group that was at the Tett Centre were quite passionate about their positions.

Trust me on one thing, only. You can't hate me, you have not lived with me for the past 36 years like my poor hubby. :D :D Therefore you don't know me well enough.:D :D

Dispite our arguments on here, *************, I can be your best friend or worst friend it does not matter to me. I always keep my worst friends closer because I actually learn from them the most, even when I don't agree with them.

You see that no matter how you make a pancake, it has two sides. So never give up, because that means that you are "Wrong". I am never "wrong", I maybe "incorrect" and only time will tell.

[Exhibitionist]

Spoken like a true woman - "I never admit I'm wrong".

I've also learn't...that money doesn't buy class.

And saying sorry - is about having class.

[Lydia]

I accept your apology. And I believe you when you say YOU ARE SORRY. I agree you are very Sorry.

Thousands would not believe you about your saying that you are sorry, BUT I do.:D :D :D

[Lydia]

Hay Hay Hay, WOOOOOOOOOO Hay Man, I know that you don't admit when you are wrong. That is because you are not a woman, WE ARE NEVER WRONG, incorrect maybe but NEVER WRONG.

[Exhibitionist]

Hi Lydia;

Do us (all) a favour...in the forum - (from now on) - please.

Try to put a few "intelligent thoughts/words" together (in a row) for us...(for the forum)

This girly (wanta - sense of humor) schtick is becoming a little irksome.

And your right "again" - I'm not wrong on this one.

[Lydia]

*************
I KNOW i have a sense of humour, thanks for realizing it but I need your confirmation.

Of course, you have a sense of humour yourself, when you say that Council runs like a Business. However, we don't need BANKRUPTED BUSINESSES and if Council does not LEARN to become business minded you will have a
bankrupted city. Which, I must remind you that Various Government Departments and Insurance Companies have indicated would happen if COUNCIL does not smart up.

Do you a favour, once you will to let your TRUE name be known on this site. Only then will I BE more than willing to consider leaving this site. Now put your money where your mouth is. Tell the people exactly who you are. I DARE YOU. (by the way I already know however, it is not my place to inform the public who is who on here)

By the way are you running for council? I certain hope so, I need people to VOTE OFF.:D :D :D

[Exhibitionist]

Bell hangs up on 256 workers

The Whig-Standard
Local News - Friday, March 03, 2006 @ 07:00

Bell Canada closed its

256-person call centre in Kingston yesterday less than three years after expanding into a $7-million custom-built facility in the former Alcan business park.

Shocked employees were called to the centre’s cafeteria around noon, where they were told Bell planned to close the facility immediately.

I believe your (sense of humor) silly as you may think it is -does NOTHING to help the people of this city. Please just focus on the issues of the day.

You abviously then: do not know the past councils very well.

As an example: Block "D" - has been vacant for the past 20 years. Now, please take a look at that site. I believe this council: 8 out of 12 are "business minded" or have a business background. (look at the council voting on issues)
The others are high school teachers etc. (which will likely not be running next time)

I would suggest this council has a more "pro-active business agenda" than (many) of the past councils. Thus my preamble on the LVEC, Unions, and Government Town themes I have been obviously enlighting the newcomers about!

Name what is in a name?

First names are prevalent thoughout this site - it is relevence as much as *************. Get use to it.

Just give us some intelligent, valid and researched information - not soap opera s, or excuses ....i.e who's, who's!

[Lydia]

:eek:

Hate to admit it but you are correct, this council IS (I repeat IS) MORE pro-active business than many of the past councils.

You are correct Name what is in a name.

See I can agree with you sometimes, (Very few times, but still some times):eek: :eek: :p

[Exhibitionist]

Lydia;

eek. eek, eek. eek. ?:confused:

I frankly do not care to much if you or others agree or not with my research or general local observations. (I would like intelligent answers to any serious subject - not eek?)

I also think it is "unwise" to place ones full contact name, information etc. on ANY "Chat room" site. (I would suggest most follow my example for safety and privacy laws.)

Frankly; I think I have been "bang on" of the economic issues of this region from the beginning.

I would ask yourself or anyone to "qualify" my general findings. The proof is obvious and presented. Taxation "fears" for the LVEC from retired tett supports, KCAL or most with to much time on their hand - are at the bottom of the true priorities for this cities survival as we know it.

And as I had mentioned many times - businesses have been shutting down at an alarming rate in Kingston. (Good, well paying, steady employment) Not one man bands.

And being replaced with Starteks, Starbucks etc. Bell as you see only after 3 years (great business planners eh?) Are throughing another 300 people out of work in Kingston.

This is NOT good economic development.

The LVEC would help draw businesses (good) business into the area.
-through events, trade shows and a beacon for the region as a capital centre to "do business". (As I have always said)

But, I must say for the workers of this region I am disappointed at the acting president/chair? Garrat? At Kedco.

While praised in the paper for Kedco's "quick reaction" to have "job fairs" to help displaced workers at Bell to find employment.

His particular comments: "that the other call centres are hiring" - he seemed that this is a good solution!

Again; Starteck pays half of what Bell did. And Assurance and Starteck could do the same move just as easily as Bell. Pull the plug at any time and reroute with a (push of a button) to anywhere else they have facilities. Including India.

Kedco - in my mind is acting with the same simple mindedness with no plan or focus on the big picture.

Its rather disappointing.

[Lydia]

You and I don't care what others think of us. There is a difference between you and me. WHEN THINGS TURN UGHLY, like learning about people's lives being uprooted, I do my best to try to find people who CAN HELP THESE PEOPLE GET NEW CAREERS.

Other than shooting of your mouth, What are you doing, Any JERK can point out that Crap flyies. It takes people like Jeffrey Garrah, to help in getting new positions with other companies.

Just to point out something, KEDCO IS NOT BELL. KEDCO DOES NOT DECIDE WHO COMES AND GOES out of Kingston. Heck maybe these people LEFT KINGSTON BECAUSE OF YOU AND ME, and this silly dialogue that we are having.

IMAGINE THAT YOU ARE THE REASON BELL LEFT.:eek: :eek: :eek:

[Exhibitionist]

I frankly do not care to much if you or others agree or not with my research or general local observations. (I would like intelligent answers to any serious subject - not eek?)

This is what I said. (Not your twisted wording or silly "eeks")

And frankly - I have worked with many "local" "marginalised", underemployed persons to find meaningful work/businesses/careers.

It is obvious - from my past and present discussions you either refuse to read what has been written - (research on taxation/ LVEC as a beacon for business, specifics to businesses that have and are leaving this area) It is not my doing if you do not get it or cannot read whats infront of you.

The persons that I have worked and actually tried to employ or mentored with have appreciated the true effort and guidance. Of course; not all are "ready" to listen but more over it was a great and valued experience for both the mentors and mentees.

Even the "do it yourselfers" that (have the fire in their bellies) were guided. Some I (we) (i.e accountants, marketing spe******ts, Queens Profs, local company owners, generalists and entrepenues from T.O, Ottawa and volunteer spe******ts) all contributed. If funding had not been cut by the Government, we would be alive and well in Kingston.

I know it was a very unique group. No other organisation in Canada has a mentoring program for small busines like ours was. It helped in a positive, realistic fashion - bringing in many TRUE business or field experts, - to help the "local, underemployed/marginalised.

I find it offensive that you suggest otherwise. But, if interested and if you qualify maybe in the future when funding is again available and we are re-organised. You maybe a good candidate to help woman entrepenuers with "financial help". i.e taxes, business plan cash flow analysis, etc.

And just for your information a noted business prof at Queens agrees with me in observations regarding "call centres" and Kedco's stategic approach on faciliating "non permanent businesses" to Kingston.

The other so called "recruiting call centres" - are not designed to be permanent fixtures. And are NOT such a great idea to focus lots of energy on. They are non permanent and low paying positions, no security. These call centres can unplug and move anywhere in the world.

Empire life has brought more to the table than Kedco. Although some would call it convienient poaching. But, in any even the workers would likely get reasonable pay, working conditions and steadier employment to plan their lives around.

Kedco and Mr. Garrah are also making a big mistake going after only "high tech", logistics and distrubutorship businesses. As a Queens Business Prof. says in Saturdays paper regarding "Bell" and KEDCO's business strategy - "Kingston does not have any more business strategic "advantages" than Toronto, Ottawa or any other city for high tech.

There is NO reason why Kingston would be chosen over already ESTABLISHED high tech regions (local suppliers etc) like Ottawa. I think KEDCO and its new/old leaders are nieve to think they can start a high tech industry now - they are obviously behind the eight ball."

Mr. Jeffrey Garrah, maybe YOUR "new savour" - but I and the Queens Business Dept.
are not quite convinced. We see no proof or assurances in yours or KEDCO's answer.

KEDCO budget should be reissued to a Toronto consultant firm - immediately and the balance of funds put into infastructure fund.

[Exhibitionist]

Historic moment’: Two-year debate ends with 8-5 vote

The Whig-Standard
Local News - Wednesday, May 31, 2006 @ 07:00

A gleaming glass and limestone entertainment centre will rise on what is now a dusty, gravel parking lot in downtown Kingston but taxes won’t.

With this pledge in mind, several uncertain Kingston councillors lent their support last night to the plan to build a 5,000-seat arena project worth about $41.8 million.

After roughly three and a half hours of questions and debate, city politicians voted 8-5 to build the Kingston sports and entertainment centre on a block of city-owned land at the northwest corner of Ontario and Barrack streets.

The vote marked the final political approval for a project conceived two years ago.

“Most taxpayers are sick and tired of us putting taxes up and right now we do not have to put taxes up to build this,” said Councillor George Sutherland.

The Countryside councillor, who represents Kingstonians living north of Highway 401, said he still has concerns about parking and financial risks, but believes they have been minimized.

Sutherland and at least two other councillors who were undecided until the last minute, Beth Pater and Bittu George, said they were reassured when the provincial government offered a $4- million grant this week.

“I would not be supporting this proposal if I thought it was going to be a burden on the taxpayers,” George said.

The confidence of councillors uncertain about a business plan that relies heavily on borrowing got a boost roughly half an hour into last night’s meeting, when a single-page letter was passed around the council horseshoe.

Rosen explained that it was a letter received in his office at 6:23 p.m. by fax from the federal minister of transport, infrastructure and communities, Lawrence Cannon.

“I understand there will be a vote at Kingston City Council this evening and wish to inform Council members that this important project will receive federal consideration if it passes the vote this evening and obtains provincial support,” Cannon wrote.

Councillor Beth Pater said she received many inquiries from constituents who fear that taxes will rise to pay for the centre.

Building it is necessary, she said, to ensure the vibrancy of a key segment of the city’s economy, in the face of suburban retail competition.

“We need to increase tourism to stimulate development downtown,” Pater said.

Councillor Steve Garrison, a critic of the project, said the federal letter isn’t a guarantee.

“That doesn’t mean we’re going to get money,” said Garrison, who voted against proceeding.

He argued the city should not be proceeding with the costly project when it struggles to keep up with daily priorities like grass cutting.

“It’s one thing to have vision, but it’s another thing to be a dreamer,” he said.

Councillor Leonore Foster, who chaired a task force that first proposed a downtown centre, noted that the downtown business community, through two groups, is backing the borrowing of $6 million for the project.

“People say the business community should put their money where their mouth is,” she said. “They’ve certainly done so in this case.”

Councillor Sara Meers raised concern about an agreement with the Kingston Frontenacs hockey team, which will be the major tenant of the new centre.

Under the deal, Frontenacs hockey games have priority over other events that might use the facility.

“Unless we want to rename this the Frontenac palace, we should stop and consider what’s going on here,” Meers said.

Councillor Floyd Patterson said he was “a little uncertain” given citizen concern about possible tax hikes, but he was reassured by the commitments by senior governments.

“I think we’re at the doorway of a historic moment in our city,” Patterson said.

Mayor Harvey Rosen acknowledged that the debate about the issue has been fractious and the process flawed, for which he took responsibility.

But it would be impossible to get unanimity, he argued.

He said a vote in favour of the project was a vote in response to what the majority of citizens want.

“This project is symbolic of what Kingston can be,” he said.

Councillor George Beavis opposed the project, citing concern about finances.

“I think it will be a cost to the taxpayer,” he said.

Councillor Kevin George complained that he was a victim of inappropriate pressure tactics yesterday.

George rose early in the council meeting to say he received an e-mail from Councillor Ed Smith that was a “bit of a problem.”

Later in the day, George said he got a voicemail message from someone who he did not name, but who was, he claimed, a supporter of the project and a financial contributor to the mayor’s last election campaign.

Councillor Bittu George acknowledge that citizens, who go to the polls in a municipal election in November, have final say on whether building the centre was the right decision.

“I’m prepared to let the people decide in the fall if this is a good decision or a bad decision,” George said.

Councillors agreed last night with the staff recommendation to choose a design and construction plan for the facility by EllisDon and Brisbin Brook Beynon architects.

Construction could begin within months, with the facility scheduled to open in December 2007.